Member postings for brian jones 11

Having got some new drip feed oilers sorted I was musing on the topic of keeping your lathe properly oiled.

I had acquired a pressure wanner type oil gun years ago whic is ok but only seemed useful on the layshaft bearings

I also came across this

https://www.haythornthwaite.com/184%20Myford%20Lubrication.pdf

which gave much info on the hidden oiler points

Some of these oiler points were fitted with conventional grease nipples which renders the pressure oiler useless and conventional grease guns (grease being a no-no) cant be used for oil without serious mods eslewherre on MEW

I also fail to understand how the all important beds and saddles can be conveniently oiled, other than splashing oil on the flats and thinking of England

Has anyone else given thought to how this careless situation can be addressed

Yes you can spend an hour or two stripping the machine down but is that really practical for routine use (not production)

I squinch at the thought of any grind dust getting entrained in the lub film, surely part of the lub process is to flush out dirt

Ideas pls

3/8 UNF is a common size for brake pipe fittings

here is a brass plug to make an adapter

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132854435674?hash=item1eeebdcf5a:g:dAIAAOSwI~9b6rsc

I took a punt on one of these a week ago, it arrived today (from a uk supplier?) cost £9. It is listed as 14mm thread, no good for the Myford - too big, but I expected to make an adapter, easy enough as the pic shows BUT

here's the shock

I unscrewed the original fitting with the sight hole and same for the leaky myford one - sight plastic cracked - and to my great surprise the old Myford fitting screwed straight on to the new oiler

So refitted, all done and dusted in 10 mins and drips as needed

What a result

cw £30 ea from ykw

So I have immediately ordered a second one

Its not often something works out like this

hope this helps

OBTW  FYI

looking closely at the original myford oiler and its thread socket, i thought it was a bit small for 1/4 BSP and sure enough it turned out to be 3/8" BSP 28 tpi, quite a lot finer than 19tpi as above core 0.32 id and od 0.379 thats my old ML7. bit it didnt matter as i reused the old adapter

Edited By brian jones 11 on 07/08/2021 10:25:33

I have a 70 year old ML7 still going strong after i did some repairs/upgrades and battled the infamous nose job.

Buying new I wouldnt want a repeat of past models as progress is made. I think factory made DRO is essential today, as is VFD, metric/imp screw cutting with QCGB.

The Warco 290 seems to tick all the boxes and I have yet to hear a bad word. It also has a flange chuck fixing

Only problem is a waiting list on orders.

SOD you are right about the impatience of youth. in our day it took a 5 year apprenticeship to gain a thorough grounding in workshop practice

I suggested to my lad he train up to become a robot technician, there will always be a call for these techies but they will need workshop manual skills as a solid basis.

If this topic has been raised before recently pls accept apologies and suggest link

Lets say I have a budget of £10k and want a new metric lathe suitable for the hobbyist ie not so heavy it needs special lifting gear - lets say dissembles into a 2 man job. It should be compatible with the Myford hobby market

Say <1hp vfd, to 2000 rpm, screw cutting horizontal/cross feed, QC tool post, 3 jaw 4 jaw, faceplate plus facility to accept collett system?

excluding DRO but with option to add as a factory extra

Have I missed anything?

pls feel free to identify inferior products. Myford is not perfect but its faults are honest (except for the nose thread of course)

Bear in mind that I have only recently become acquainted with Covid tools and what little I know wouldnt fill the back of a postage stamp

I am not intending any production work btw

I was thinking of this to encourage my grandson who sadly would never get the industrial training I did

So while I am resting on Myford's bed, I mused - where did JW get his thread from?

Here's my take

BTW a lot more info is available on the Whitworth society pages

https://www.whitworthsociety.org/history.php?page=2

JW grew up through the early 1800s through the shop floors of Machinery Makers of the time and noted how there was no standard way of making nuts and bolts etc. So he set about amassing a collection from many of the factors around the Midlands area. He then deduced an average for Pitch (tpi) preferences and settled on an average angle of 55deg without further thought. He arrived at the form recognising that sharp points were impractical and made bolts weak

So armed with a compass and a set square here is what occurred

I hope the simple arc and set square construction is obvious and results in the well known radius crest/root

What looked simple on paper was difficult for production work and crests were flattened and tolerances loosened and so victorian engineers staggered on and this thread was eventually recognised by the Board of Trade as a de facto standard in the absence of anything better

Notice the red areas where there would be conflict with tightness when crests were not sufficiently rounded. A devil for internal point cut threads, requiring chasers to be made increasing production time and cost. The truncated form was established roughly for production.

This form was challenged in the States by the Sellars Corp who pushed through the UTS form 60deg with flat crests greatly simplifying manufacture but the standard retained most of the original Whitworth pitches

Notice that when specifying the Pitch, all other dimensions are dependent on this number - the OD of the shaft has no influence.

BSW and UNC in the field are often interchangeable (bad practice but inevitable but makes for a weaker fastening)

One notable exception to the above is 1/2BSW vs UNC (12 vs13 tpi). It was thought that this size was so important in construction that you didnt want bolts getting mixed

BSF and UNF are no where near compatible with UNF offering much finer pitches favoured in the emergent motor industry and great improvements in the quality of HT steel

The ISO metric followed the UTS form with rounding roots but used metric pitches

So now we know why Myford has such a quirky nose job

I wont drone on showing UTS and ISO thread forms

BTW JW went on to perfection in gunnery, made a hexagonal rifle improvement on the Lee Enfield that became the Whitworth sharpshooter but the smaller calibre was rejected by the Royal artillery but was taken up enthusiastically by the French who went on to show its superiority. Further info from the Whitworth Society on the stupidity of armchair generals

Edited By brian jones 11 on 04/08/2021 08:48:06

I plan to sell it on after a breather at cost less 10%, as new only used to skim three threads 1 careful owner. Will advise here when ready. I doubt I shall need it again only to leave it idle on a shelf

I propose to invite pms and give an Ebay site to contact for easy payment and guarantee

Hope it may get some else out of trouble and then they can pass it on like this to other members.

Well long suffering Myfordians, I can report 100% success with getting my new chuck to fit onto my spindle. I ran the new 1 1/8 tap i ordered through the adapter plate and 10 mins later my chuck fitted back on with the precision of a swiss sewing machine

So guys thats what worked for me , hope it helps, i also eased up 2 faceplates i had which were stiff

So the moral here, if you buy a new adapter plate dont expect it to fit properly without some work.

Referring to the OP Richards post I had this response from Tracy tools

Many thanks for the email, we can only offer it in standard UNF which we sell all the time for the Myford backplate, it should really be a whit form thread but over the years we must have sold hundreds and we always let people know and we've never had anyone say it didn’t work, so I think your be fine with it. 
I could quote to have a whit form tap manufactured but the cost would be around the £150 mark which doesn’t always seem worth it.

https://www.tracytools.com/taps-and-dies/UNF-taps?product_id=932

£14 same as chronos

I got chastised for suggesting 1 - 1/8" UNF x 12

more work needed here to show comparison fits, of course the clamp surfaces between threads will only be at the crest - should we get stressed about this?

Back to the drawing board Batman.

OMG I stand corrected Myford actually do make a non standard M42.5 x 2 threaded spindle

Can anyone enlighten me on why such a peculiar system was chosen. Was it some dirty means by marketing men to corner their market

My loyalty to Myford brand severely dented.

Here's a cheap charlie tip I'd like to share with fellow pensioners with diminishing means

Here's my take

For most of my early use - pre-brick time - I used the legendary Nokia 3110 2G . It was solid reliable, simple to use and I still keep one alive for spare (2nd hand for tenner), Note it can last a week on standby without charge vs smart phone needs charge every day.

Well I felt left behind with the onset of these v expensive smart phone, 3G,4G and now 5G. you can pay up £1000 and what astounds me is how easily the glass screens break (cos of the curved round edges design) and repair is ca £200

I needed to get my feet wet here - so I trawled EB and was surprised to find that used cracked phones were available for ca £25 = from private sellers

stay away from commercial resellers IMHO

At first sight the technology is bewildering and it took me 6 months before I was comfortable with it

So cut to the chase, I bought a used but working Samsung S8 with cracked screen. The owner assured me the cracked screen doesnt interfere with operation - and he was right.

I did some digging and saw why these screens are so difficult to repair - and even replace the battery is hard.

Well after trying many solutions - you can buy a gorilla glass screen to fit over the exisitng cracked screen but this makes the touch screen use much much more difficult - dont go there, and this screen broke in a couple of months

You can use these cracked versions for a while, but shards of glass will start to fall off and any kind of moisture getting under to the amoled surface is like dry rot and days are numbered.

SOOOOO

my solution is this

Clean and degrease the glass - assuming its still 100% in tact. The get some clear 50mm packing tape (like wide selotape) useful stuff. Carefully spread lengths over the surface make sure not to trap any airbubbles or creases - you might need a couple of goes to get the skill. Wrap around the edges and trim with a sharp blade to suit, and bobs your pawnbroker

Its worked fine for me for 6 months now and you dont notice the tape when the screen is on and touch screen is unaffected

BTW I do recommend getting one of those wireless chargers, its a pain having to plug in all the time every day

So for £25 (was £400 new). Private sellers (yuppies) will just upgrade with their phone contract and sell off their old one rather than live with a cracked screen

But be selective, choose you seller carefully, lot of sharks out there

Hope this helps other pensioners

Well thats rather spectacular, as you say you can spend £400 on a semi pro model

iso 724 shows a metric extra fine thread, M42 x 2

https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/metric-fine-pitch-straight-flute-taps-m42-x-2-0-second.html

a mere £124, bargain

sound like you need to get your OD right first, then check the root of the female and start doing some calcs its a 60 deg form

use the 3 wire method when you think your close

**LINK**

more info on big bore conversion

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=138053

Edited By brian jones 11 on 29/07/2021 20:51:03

q

The thread is M42.5 x 2mm

uq

what is that?

Are you suggesting the spindle thread is deliberately tapered slightly

it might explain my conjecture about a Myford secret fudge

I cant do measurement myself just now, waiting on plug tap but perhaps someone with a newish ML7 can measure his nose thread to see if it has a secret taper

It seems that this Myford nose design is fundamentally flawed and will always be of potential for trouble on new parts

You see 1/2 thou oversize and all is sweet, but 1/2 thou undersize, whole pile of grief

you would expect RDG to run a plug tap through its adapter plates (made in india?)before selling them

is that too much to expect?

As for sending stuff back, not that easy for some living away from the now disappearing post offices, and there is the likelihood of getting another back with the same (unchecked problem - as I remembred reading from another post - lost in time, only on the third try did he get one that worked

thats a lot of grief

I will just engineer my way out of the problem = its what Myfordians do

btw just to show we are not alone

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=52289

Edited By brian jones 11 on 29/07/2021 12:00:15

Well Richard, it seems ive caught your nose problem myself with a new 5" RDG 3jaw "screw on chuck" that does complete the travel.

This is so annoying as the thread doesnt have to be an interference fit. The chuck is located on the shank shoulder (1.25dia) and the back face. the thread merely clamps the surfaces together

I have lashed out on a plug tap from chronos and hope I will solve the problem @ £14. If it works I will put the tap back up for sale here, Maybe the tap can be passed around and help others in distress

I cant live with a half fitted chuck, never knowing when it might move

When I have solved the problem and regained my normally mild mannered composure, RDG will feel the hot breath of my displeasure at their carelessness and a demand for compensation. All will be duly reported here

So Im not so clever either, I just bought an HBM 3 jaw from RDG ready to screw on it said

Well I got most of the way there then it tightened up and wouldnt budge any further about 1.5 turns to go

Still it spins ok and i have got the energy to mess around with a dremel or complain and send it back

I shall live with it and get on with some work

I wonder if I complain they will send me one of their plug taps on loan for a bit of reaming

just makes you wonder do RDG check their stock on a standard nose before they send it out. This is not the first time this has happened - ive seen it reported on this board. Its not beyond reason to expect RDG to carry their own go-no gauge for this rather critical component

Disappointing RDG, but Ill live with it, maybe make a half washer to take up the slack, when ive got nothing on (in this hot weather

The positive bit is my old Burnurd chuck is now sitting happily up on Doreens nose

So there maybe milling ahead

Anyone remember where this other member had trouble and had to return his chuck (not certain it was RDG?)

Hi P

you mean this

**LINK**

We used to call these belts linishers for smoothing out castings

i never owned one of these hence my dumb questions

shows what you can learn here by asking

WOW the machining there shows a ripped finish (perhaps a Covid tool?). Hss should give a nice matt finish, no lube needed assuming grey CI 50 sfm