Member postings for Dave Brannigan

The circuit diagram in the manual is fairly representative of what’s actually there but there are errors. The fan connections were something I found to be slightly different. There’s also no filter as described, but I think that refers to the psu for the rpm counter.

what they really need to do is add a small low voltage psu (there’s actually already one for the rpm display so just make it bigger) and make all the control low voltage. The drive can be reconfigured to take 24v inputs rather than sink it’s own 5v supply signals to ground. Then do away with the contractor and replace it with a small relay as the vfd handles all the high current, this would still not comply with modern machinery safety standards unless the drive had a safe off function but even that is doable. Small low voltage relayed scrub their contacts as the contacts land. Slight sideways movement. Part of the design. Contractors do not. They land square. With higher voltages and currents this isn’t an issue, but with low voltage it is as the contacts do not “clean themselves” during operation. I will be modding mine after warranty.

I’ll also wire the fans so they only run when the drive does. It’s the only time heat is made inside the box and anything more is just annoying unnecessary noise.

The lead screw mod is very attractive, but I gotta get past warranty and be sure turning is for me before I do anything radical.

Interesting view, but please do remember that within a few days of receiving the machine I tried cutting an 11 TPI thread and it failed which is where all the uncertainty with the accuracy of the tables emanated from. As a beginner I trusted the data provided and it didn't work. I don't feel that I should need to get a calculator out each and every time I want to select a particular pitch. That's what the tables are for surely?

It seems there is disagreement on the numbering on the cross slide tables as Jason says it is a linear distance - same as the Z Axis, but sillyoldduffer says it is a function of the radius being half the diameter thus moves twice as much etc.

After Jason's comment I reported this back to Warco and they have forwarded it to China. Didn't say whether it was right or wrong...? Maybe there is more than one convention?

I guess I'm a bit data driven. If I see something in a manual I expect it to be right especially on something that's been around for a while. Would have thought any bugs would have been sorted by now.

Turning is only a pastime for me. I get to play once or twice a week at best and then not for long. I guess Ill get better with time, but Id like to bottom out basic errors on the tool before I learn to adopt the mistakes and then relearn it after it gets corrected.

Though I haven't had anything on fire yet I have had a fault with a contactor that prevented the VFD from running at all. Big chunky contactors were never intended for switching 5v DC signals for fwd and rev but that's what is fitted and all it took was a little oxide on the contacts and my 1 day old lathe died. It oughta have had two small relays, one low voltage for the 5v signals and a separate one for the control switching which is all 240vac.

Again fed back to Warco. Whether they'll do anything about it is another matter. I'll mod it for reliability sake after warranty expiration.

Cheers,

Dave

So the plot thickens and the errors found continue to grow in my change tables. Maybe. Read on.

Using Jasons method I've indicated my slide movements using the smallest incremental gear set of

45 75

|

80 20

|

H 85

With 10 turns of the chuck I get:

1.457mm with A

2.798mm with B

0.721mm with C

All as per the table give or take a few degrees of chuck start/end position variation.

However with the cross slide I get:

0.357mm with A

0.724mm with B

0.166mm with C.

OK C isn't shown on the table as it's deemed too small to be bothered with, but for A & B it is travelling twice as far as it ought to according to the table. Now this may be the way it's supposed to be - to do with the radius being half the diameter or something. Like I said I am learning all the way and happy to be educated, but surely the figures on the tables should be a linear distance and not a function of diameter etc?

If I'm not mistaken this will be yet another point to feedback to Warco.

Cheers

Dave

So based upon the tables posted which feed rates are you using for the baseline of your cuts?

Dave

I can see the change gears becoming a pain if I did a lot of threading but at the moment I'm just playing. I guess determining a suitable feed rate to cover a range of applications will be a good place to start. At the moment I have it set to, you guessed it, the slowest. but I'll try faster I promise.

Id be interested to know if your change gear tables had the same errors as mine - even if you no longer use them.

As to that motor driven leadsecrw mod, I watched episode 1 in full and skipped through subsequent ones. It looks fantastic but I think I'll see if I can master the basics before investing further. What kind of money was it as a matter of interest? Is there a UK seller?

Cheers

Dave

I’ve been using the steel rule gently pressed between the tool and some small diameter bar in the Chuck method for centring set up. Could well be down to speed asi was on small diameters that the stalling was worse. I’ll get the flack gear on and see what she’s capable of at some point. Just not today😀

Thanks Jason. Seems like I still need to faff with the album to get it on the site before it can be plucked out and pasted then. Bit clunky but if that’s what it is...

I guess my clutch is slipping because The tools I’m using are not sharp enough or I’m abusing them by not working the cutting tool hard enough with enough speed. I’ll try abusing it a bit and see what happens.

I put a power meter on it whilst I was cutting and it only pulled about 400W. I have 1100 to spare so I’ll give it some stick. What’s the worst that can happen?

Cheers guys.

Could someone please tell me how to embed a photo in the actual post as its getting to grind having to create an album each time I want to show something. Maybe I'm missing something?

Anyhow, the Pitch of my leadscrew is 3mm and the clutch - a spring loaded cam type clutch is mounted on the left of the shaft as it enters the gearbox. Please See album photo. Not sure if this is a recent feature for a 190 but it is listed as a feature on the Warco site as "Overload clutch to feed shaft".

When it overloads it just jumps 1/4 turn then carries on driving until it overloads again. Simple and effective but I wondered if my spring was weak. I guess the other factors in which I'm a novice need looking into before blaming the tool!

Been carpet fitting today so no time to read everything but I'll get to it eventually. I thought retirement was meant to be restful!

In answer to Sillyoldduffer' I've also uploaded some pics of the machine change gear plate and the manual which I printed and have taped it to the machine for now. Not great but hopefully better than what was there where data accuracy is concerned?

Note that in the imperial threading table the gear selector rows reads BAC where all the other tables read CAB. By chance the first thread I tried cutting was 11tpi and it just want working out. I explained to warco who said the gear selector should be set to C not B as per the manual. Sure enough that fixed it but why then does the plate on the machine say B. That led me to want to check all the data on the plate and all those with a bit of black electrical tape above them show different gears to those in the manual too. Compare the photos!

Rather than have me install all the ratios and check them for accuracy I asked Warco to tell me what is right and to supply a new plate with the corrections incorporated. They in turn referred it back to the Chinese manufacturers. Could be a long wait. If anyone else has one maybe you could lean on them. I wonder how many other models suffer this. The manual is a copy paste of the 280 in the most part.

Had I not tried cutting an 11TPI thread as my first one I may never have discovered this error!

In the meantime I just dropped another photo in an album showing the dimensions. The inserts are inverted to better align with the ruler edge. They each have a 4.5mm hole with a taper seat and are 4.1mm thick..

Lots of great info to digest here. The Table John H posted looks great but it's in French. Some I can work out... others not.

As for Andrew J's comments on speed, don't blame the machine. I'm just scared to wind it up but it sounds like I need to. I'll go digging for inserts given the detail supplied and if I need more I'll come back. Unless someone has a turnkey solution to these specific Warco tools that wish to share. It'd be a bit cheeky to ask Warco for the part numbers

Dave

I’m really enjoying a new facet to engineering that I’ve not explored yet. Lots to learn but I’m realistic about my limitations and goals. I’m never going to be able to mass produce but if I can make small quantities of things with reasonable accuracy and finish I’ll be a happy bunny.

the link provided by Emgee certainly appears to have some inserts that I haven’t seen elsewhere and look like good candidates. Will check further tomorrow. Haven’t had chance to check John Hinckley’s offering yet.

Maybe I wasn’t clear regarding the feed clutch. That wasn’t happening on the brass cut, but when cutting steel using inserts. Anything over about 0.4mm and it started jumping. 200 rpm and the slowest feed rate x whatever that was. As I said the change gear chart was all wrong but it was pretty slow.

I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve tried some nice sharp hss bits on steel and see how that copes.

cheers

Dave

Well if nothing else I’m pleased that it appears I’ve not been a total numpty and missed something. There is obviously a bit more to the tools than meets the eye.

I went with indexable tools as I thought it would remove a variable from my results in the form of my ability to grind a good hss tool.

My brass experience has made me question my choices but I’ll persevere with them on larger mild steel jobs and will invest in a few hss tools to have a play with. Would still be worth finding an alternate source for the warco tools though. If you can find your data I’d love a share of it.

I did find that the lead screw clutch on the lathe appeared to jump with fairly low cut depths and the slowest feed rate whilst using the inserts too which made we wonder whether the clutch is just very weak or the inserts are really dull. Not enough experience to be able to tell but I guess operator error is more likely on a new lathe.

cheers,

dave

If you’re an anal retentive when it comes to detail and quality we might be Colin.

Seriously though we could be though it’s a bit off topic! My family moved to Wales in 1961. I was added in 1963. Father from a little place called Milltown near Newcastle SE of Belfast. There aren’t too many about, especially with the double n in the middle. If you would like to pursue the theory further we should take it offline. PM me if that’s allowed on the forum...

cheers,

Dave

Thanks for the quick replies gents.

I’ve created an album with some pics in there per Jason’s suggestion.

All the inserts in the set of 5 are interchangeable. In the set of nine two there are 5 different tips, ie some share. I’ve captured all the numbers on the tools.

if anyone could explain how to translate these numbers into tools I’d appreciate that so I can self service in future.

I tried making some tiny brass parts and failed miserably with the indexable tools. In fact they don’t even feel that sharp in the finger tip. I used an old hss tool I came across and it cut so much better. Big learning curve to conquer, but I’ll get there, especially with the help of guys like you. So thank you.

dave

Hi All, new to the forum and indeed the world of turning & Milling.

Entering retirement after a lifetime of electrical engineering I decided to get myself a lathe to pass the time and give me something to learn. Being a keen Car mechanic I think if Id had one 30 years ago it may have paid for itself by now, but as it is it's early days to say how much use it will be. Ive been holding out for second hand unit for over a year but with a lack of anything that fitted expectations, but more importantly my shed, I bit the bullet and bought a new Warco WM290V and have had it a month now.

Had a few teething issues with it which I'll probably cover in detail in a different review for the benefit of others either thinking of getting one or having similar issues but in short, the change gear table on the machine was different to that in the manual in several areas, there is a reference line missing from the cross slide and it quickly developed a fault where the drive would stop and start in both fwd and reverse. I fixed that myself and advised Warco of a design weakness which they are feeding back to the manufacturer. Drives and control was my field. Warco have been very supportive of my findings but with the Coronavirus prevalent in China, getting answers back may be protracted.

Let's get to the point of this post though.

Along with the Lathe I ordered a milling slide, collet chuck/adapter plate, and several indexable tools. (some were thrown in as a sweetener)

Being an oaf and learning at a rate of knots I've managed to blunt or chip some of the inserts. Feeling that Warco have had enough of my pension I thought I'd look elsewhere to replace the tips and therein lies my question. The tools have numbers marked on them and I had hoped that there would be an easy way to match tips to the tool but no so. Not that I can't find anyhow. There are some guides on t'internet but they don't seem to correspond with my markings. Is this something that is easily navigated or am I tied to Warco as a tip supplier? Not that I have too much of a problem with that but it would be nice to a) have options, and b) to understand how it all works.

Hope someone can guide me.