Member postings for Richard Kirkman 1

A couple pages ago A guy called Mal said that he ran his colchester student on a static converter for 4 years before it gave up. He said that it slowly lost energy and ended up not being able to get into the higher speeds. Especially given that the motor is only 1.5hp with a 3.5hp converter, surely 2hp extra is more than enough?

I bought the converter from the reduced section in machine mart, so it could have been used before. It's definitely not brand new. So possibly that could be the issue, in which case i'll have to try and take it back to machine mart and get a working one?

As far as warming up goes, i'll try that tomorrow as the lathe has not been used for potentially years. ive had it since august and only just been able to turn it on.

The motor may not be the full issue, but could definitely do with some care. Its 65 years old and judging from how dirty the lathe is, It's probably full of crap too

On second attempt, trying every speed, it seems to be able to get into most but the higher speeds. Also running the phase converter at full 3.5hp instead of the 2hp stated before

52 speed video

86 speed video

118 speed video

192 speed video

272 speed video

445 speed video

It doesn't seem to want to get up to speed when the 445 speed is set

I'm not sure what condition the motor is in, Its the original from 1955 so it could be knackered?

But, also the phase converter may be old already since I bought it from the back reduced section of machine mart

The lathe is alive. I spent quite a while using a multimeter testing for continuity in the circuitry, however I couldn't find anything wrong except from the way someone has changed the wiring. They have changed it so it no longer has the safety features, so the key switch, switch in the left of the headstock for the gear cupboard and others don't affect it. No longer has a no volt release either.

So I had a play with the wires in the isolator, swapped two of the phases round and it worked. Someone suggested this a while ago.

However, even though the lathe is now spinning a bit, it's still not happy about it.

Phil, I mentioned that your lathe spun a lot more easily than mine did, I think there's too much resistance as the static converter is struggling to power the lathe.

The converter has different power settings, from 0.5 to 3.5hp. but it works best on 2hp for the 1.5hp motor. I'll get some footage of the lathe on different speeds and the effect it has on the converter and post it later. I took the brake apart and it's not causing any resistance (apart from when pushed).

Any thoughts? Videos to follow

Been back to have a play today, had a look inside the "limit switch" and it doesn't look the same as Phils.

Thoughts?(apart from it being filthy)

So what does each position do to the circuit. It's the part from the no volt release sort of bit, the ring with the key and cover and stuff, so is the intermediate position where we lifted the handle and it only beeped for a second and stopped after the handle was raised further?

Also, I've sent my flatmate back to Driffield with something I've made for you. Nothing too special, but you can always heat your workshop with it if not.

Thanks

Thanks Phil, I think I'm starting to understand a bit the stuff you're saying.

I've responded to your message, so there should be something in your inbox.

Thanks

The picture of the lathe appears to show a hole, but its just a small sticker that has a 1 on it

So I'm pretty certain that it has never ever been dual speed. The motor is definitely original too, so I don't think its a possibility.

And yes, I watched a video of someone dismantling a similar lathe and repairing it, but the circuitry was different as it was a later model similar to yours.

**LINK**

At about 9:10 you can see the inside of his lathe

and there is a better video of a crabtree here

**LINK**

But, i couldn't really see how it worked compared to my model

Yeah they go out the back into the casing, don't have any pictures of where they go. Not too sure if I even know where they go, but it shall be investigated

In that case i definitely do not hear the contactor, the only noise i hear is the slight click of the red or in my case black knobbed handle clicking into place.

Can't get any more pictures of the lathe till the 13th, but i think i may have a few other pictures somewhere

Thats the isolator box i had to wire a plug to when I first received the lathe, not too relevant I don't think, but just covering all bases, as there could be issues anywhere

And that's how i wired it, I think it was 2.5mm 4 core. So as you said that should be earthed?

Looking closer at the motor plate it says its from 1955, so quite old. It also says if i read it properly that the motor is 1.5hp. perhaps the earlier models had smaller motors. I will double check this when i'm home as the picture isn't the best. However, if it is 1.5hp then perhaps a 3.5hp static converter will be enough to power it for now (especially if Mal said his powered it for a few years)

This is where the wires leave the control board and lead through the casing to the coolant pump, just the 3 white wires

Another random picture, doubt it's of any use, but the more the better

Was this the sort of straight on picture you wanted?

That's the lathe itself, still has a lot of cleaning to be done, but need it working first. As you can see, my forward reverse switch is not original like on your lathe Phil.

I'll be able to get more pictures and even videos when i'm back

Edited By Richard Kirkman 1 on 27/11/2019 20:07:49

Dave, I don't think the pump does actually run. I just hear it buzzing, but I don't think it's a loud enough buzz for the motor to be running. But the point is it's getting some electricity

When I turn the on switch, I hear a large clunk noise. But I think that's just the noise that the switch makes. I don't think the contactor has moved apart from when I'm in there.

The tongue you mentioned is definitely missing, I hadn't noticed before. And I've only just noticed now, that another tab and contact that should be paired(the one that's broken in the bottom of the case) should probably go here?

The white/dirty white cable going from the bottom is the coolant pumps cable. So the blue wire has been put down there when it should be going onto the contactor above and have the tab which is loose in the bottom connecting the pump. Does that make sense to you? I'm just guessing sti, but it seems to be logical to me

I'm getting quite confused with all these terms. Specifically which part is the contactor, is it this part? And if its not this part, what is this part and what does it do and why?

Or is it this part at the back. The piece that says limit switch has a pin that moves up and down when i switch the lathe on from the lever on the front and makes a click as it goes into place. But, I'm not too sure what noises i'm looking for?

And no, there isn't a switch on the chuck guard. Also, i have access to the motor round the back so I am able to check if it buzzes but i have not done so yet.

Thanks

Edited By Richard Kirkman 1 on 26/11/2019 20:04:37

Mal, how did you initially get your student to work? Was it just plug and play for you with your pc40 or did you have any issues?

Right, Thanks for all the responses so far, I have A LOT to look at. If anything I do enjoy this as I like learning about machines, as long as i can get it working.

Dave-Thanks for your response- the fuses are probably fine, although i haven't taken anything to pieces in there so i'll check that when i'm back. The lathe has a No Volt Release built in as far as i know? but it has no safety parts like an emergency stop button. The main off/on/on with coolant pump switch provides a very large satisfying clunk but I am unsure if that's the same thing as the contactors you're on about as i haven't been brave enough to turn it on without the cover on, not that that would help as of the 3 pins that need to be plugged in. I don't understand what some of the components in there even do like this entire part in the picture below

But in this part it looks like the contacts are very rusted, if they are contacts that is.

As far as the light switch not being there, I would like to fit one, but I cant seem to find a genuine replacement for the part(any direction from anyone appreciated?)

Ideally i'd like to understand every part in here just so i know what's going on.

Someone has definitely been in here before me as when i first took the cover off I found this drawing

Phil- I see you're in Driffield, I'm at University in Hull, but the lathe resides at home in Darlington. I haven't looked at the key in the end of the lathe, however the cupboard doors do open, so I presume its on. I think your lathe might be the mk1.5 as it looks like it has the reverse forward switch on the back of the lathe, where as mine was added 3rd party ( I think, definitely doesn't look official). Apart from that, the inside of the components in the lathe should be the same when it comes to the electronics. The contactor makes a nice clunk noise when i activate the lever

And yes I do have the manual specifically for the earlier model and this is the wiring diagram from it

Clive and Andrew- Yes it most likely is a static converter then, not rotary (It's also not making any noise so definitely not rotary). Perhaps a short term solution if I can upgrade. The motor plate says its 2.5hp so would a static 3.5hp converter possibly manage? If not, i may have access to a proper rotary one if i beg

Mal-So your pc40 worked with your mk1.5 for a while. My mk1 has a 2.5hp motor and as far as i'm aware, the mk1.5 had a 3hp motor. So maybe the pc40 will work a bit better for mine (still short term fix)?

Simon- Yep thats all gobbledegook, however i'll try my best. As andrew says, yes there are 3 live wires and earth, so no neutral. The converter is definitely 3 phase, but as Andrew also said, its not true three phase. According to the converter, its applying 0 amps, but it says that it has power from 230v mains so 415v should be coming out, I don't think the lathe is drawing anything from it though. Thanks, I'll try not to electrocute myself.

Thank you everyone for your comments so far, I still cannot check anything till the 13th December but this'll hopefully help me with some understanding of what's going on before I attempt anything

Afternoon,

First post on here so here we go

In the summer I purchased a Mark 1 Colchester student completely unseen and untested (forgive me) the man said it was working fine although i'm unsure how long its sat around for. I spent a while cleaning it up and getting ready to start it as it looks like it hadn't been used for many years. I had to fit a new fuse box to the garage and a 32 amp socket so the rotary converter would work. I'm using a Clarke pc40 3.5hp rotary phase converter to power the lathe. The lathe is 3hp

I had to stop as i moved back to university for a few months, but I have had a day or two now to play with it while i'm home

So, i have done some work on the lathe, replacing a sliding sleeve in the headstock so now i believe it is mechanically functional. I didn't want to switch it on without replacing this part as I thought it could have done more damage.

So, going plugging everything in, its all looking fine, I switch the motor on and nothing happens, just nothing.

When I switch the lathe to on with coolant pump, the coolant pump makes noise as if it is working (but i have yet to clean out the tank and fill it, so i don't know if its pumping or just making noise)

I have taken off the front cover to look for issues but i am definitely no electrician, i have no idea what i'm looking at. I have the wiring diagram, but i have no idea what to look at and then how to test for issues.

The rotary phase converter has a current reading on it so you can see how much it is pulling, even with the coolant pump on, it remains at zero.

Does anyone have an idea of where to start? I understand which wires are which and where they're going to, but not the things they're going into.

there is a loose piece pictured in the casing that looks broken and i have no idea where it may have gone. The reverse forward switch which has been added looks fine to me and all the pieces inside the case are fine.

I still have yet to clean around the back of the lathe, but it will clean up to the same as the rest of the lathe, just very thick grime

I have taken plenty of pictures, but i will be unable to access the lathe again till the 13th December as I have to go back to University.

Not too sure how the photos work on this, so i'l attach a link to the album. If people can't view that then i'll post them normally

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eWFpzzp7p7Wasart9

Thanks