Member postings for Graham Meek

Hi Colin,

The Aluminium you can get hold of will be fine and off the top of my head I think it is 8 mm thick.

Regards

Gray,

Hi Colin,

I use the Proxxon drill chuck on my C5, as it is 0-10 mm capacity where as the Emco is 0-8 mm. I purchased a B12 to No 1 Morse taper arbor to mount this on from one of the ME suppliers.

I suspect things are starting to warm up with you while we here in the UK are getting decidedly cooler.

As regards the PM, I concur with Michael, a lot of people, including myself, benefit from other peoples questions. When I recently needed to get a new 2D drawing package. It was Michael's response to another members question on another post along the same lines that made me go with Qcad, so thanks Michael for your input. I am completely satisfied with my / our choice.

Regards

Gray,

Hi Colin,

There was a time many years ago when I was not a Toolmaker, and I had to ask. There is nothing wrong in that and there is no need to apologize as I am only too happy to help.

All the black rectangular parts are Anodized aluminium. The only spare part I did not have from years ago is the one plain aluminium one. The other turned parts are Leaded BMS which were commercially blacked, but again I only had the central spindle. This is threaded M8 x 1 LH Pitch to match the tailstock barrel, or sleeve, and has a couple of flats on to take an 8 mm A/F Spanner.

You are right the collar is for repeated drilling to a set depth. The use of the Bed Stop shown above is great for returning the tailstock to the same place when doing repetition parts.

All the pivot pins are 4 mm diameter groove pins to DIN EN ISO 8745. Not to be confused with Roll or Seloc Pins which are useless for this task. They come in various lengths and at the moment I cannot remember what those lengths were. These are not hard, but tough like capscrew material. As they are working in anodized aluminium which is as hard, or maybe harder than harden steel the two will give years of service without any problems. Provided they get the odd drop of machine oil something like ISO 32.

Don't think you need to anodize the aluminium. You will get an extremely long life out of plain aluminium working on this type of pin, or even silver steel. Bushings of any description would be an overkill in my book.

I find the lever tailstock handy when tapping, or using a button die. A bespoke holder for which I am currently working on among other things.

Does this help?

Regards

Gray,

Hi Colin,

My apologies for the late response.

The original design was for the Unimat 3 which was originally designed as a horizontal attachment. This was supplied originally with a new extended tailstock barrel or spindle.

Many years ago I was asked to supply one such lever attachment for a Compact 5. This was supplied by Neil Hemingway. This used the existing C5 tailstock barrel as this had a No 1 Morse Taper. This was a simple add on unit. The Unimat 3 attachment was later modified to this design.

You will see in this design a Vee Groove in the part which fits into the tailstock body. This is how the original Emco Handwheel and Feed-screw are mounted. This then allows the lever to be placed in any position convenient and locked. I prefer the horizontal mode.

This last picture is an old one which was used for in a couple of articles on making this unit.

The design of the lever and its geometry was based on the Collet Closing lever used on a Harding HLV Toolroom Lathe.

Hope this helps, regards

Gray.

Hi Bill,

If you want some free advice I would urge you to think again an on Exchanging your stamps. See also my post in the the "Banks" thread also on this site.

Regards

Gray,

Thanks for the heads up on the Building Society, as we loose our last Bank in the town in January it might be something to consider.

As regards the Post Office, or more correctly and in particular Royal Mail. My wife recently sent off some un-barcoded stamps on the Swap offer. I was dead against just putting the stamps in an envelope and just posting them off, but I was out voted.

Sure enough the reply came back that they were counterfeit. As it stands, we, nor Royal Mail, have any proof that the stamps they say are counterfeit are the ones sent in. According to the Martin Lewis program some envelopes have not arrived. There is a surprise given the advertising on the outside of the envelope.

I would have been happier if these stamps had been franked at the Post Office and a franked receipt given. That way the stamps are un-usable and we have proof that the ones received are indeed our stamps.

Luckily where we purchased the stamps reimbursed us without question, Others might not be so lucky.

All in all I consider this to be a really good scam by Royal Mail, talk about getting you to pay twice. I for one will not be using their services again if there is an alternative.

To those thinking of sending off their stamps I would urge them to think twice, or use them up over the Christmas.

Regards

Gray,

As promised here is the Tailstock set-up on the Proxxon Mill. Those who have followed the Proxxon Mill post will see why it was important to get the machine cutting perfectly square to the table.

The following are the cuts taken as they happened, below is the "Touch on".

Each Cut is 0.01 mm. One of the reasons for using the boring head was so that I could advance the cutter using a DTI on the end of the boring bar. The other was I have not finished my Fly Cutter yet.

The black Dots are where metal has been removed, which is between the black Lines. It appears the Ribs are higher. This implies to me that the cutter used was probably past it's best. Pushing away from the work as each Rib was machined due to the extra pressure brought about by a dull cutting edge. Of course it may have been the work move away. This material can be quite abrasive.

The 2nd cut has extended the clean-up to the 3rd Rib.

The last cut shows the clean-up has extended to the last bearing surface. This is after removing 0.03 mm, which was the initial error.

The Proof of the Pudding as it were. Back on the lathe and the vertical reading is Zero. (Centre Height plus half the Tailstock Barrel).

At 90 degrees and Plus 0.01 mm it is time to leave this job alone. Initial wear will soon have this spot on.

This is how this Tailstock will see out it's time with me. I have fitted my Lever attachment to this tailstock body. I have also included this because talking to a couple of people recently has shown this item that I had designed is not well known.

I do hope these notes have been of help to others, even if they do not own a Compact 5, U3, U4 or similar.

Regards

Gray,

The next thing to tackle was the manufacture of a 22 mm diameter parallel mandrel. This was just a piece of BMS turned between centres. I chose to manufacture a mandrel rather than use a piece of say Silver Steel, because there would be no guarantee the Silver Steel would fit the tailstock bore.

While we in the UK work to the Hole Based system of Limits and Fits. On the Continent where this lathe was made they work to the Shaft Based system. While I know a piece of Silver Steel will go in a standard UK, H7 hole. What tolerance has been applied to the Austrian hole is anyone's guess.

Without the spare tailstock which I had adapted this operation could have been a problem with the Original tailstock. I would have got around it by using strategically placed pieces of paper, but it would have been very trying.

The Mandrel was made long enough to support the tailstock and rest in my matched pair of Vee blocks.

This shows the set-up, note the clamping screw in the tailstock next to the slip stack.

The slips amount to the height of the centre-line of the Mandrel off surface plate. Plus the centre height of the lathe and an additional 10.48 mm. This last dimension was assessed from the Headstock of the Unimat 3 that I refurbished as well as the new Carriage purchased from Austria.

The dimension is the height of a 10 mm diameter roller resting in the Vee in relationship to the flat on on the headstock or tailstock body.

The clock is then used to get the roller to the same height as the slip gauges. Once this is done the Vee block clamps are locked. The roller was then moved to the other end of the Vee way and checked with the clock at the same setting. It was as I suspected parallel to the table, which meant the flat was going to be at fault.

Using the 10.48 mm stack of slip gauges the clock was run over the flat. Whilst at the back in this shot it is where I would want it to be at Zero.

The area of Blue Marker pen shows that this area is higher by 0.03 to 0.04 mm. This confirms the displacement of the tailstock body towards the Operator, and the rocking from corner to corner.

Next time we will mount it on the Proxxon Mill.

Regards

Gray,

Hi Kiwi Bloke,

My apologies if my reply came across a little terse, it was never intended. I should have read your reply, gone to Wikipedia and not gone with my rather doubtful memory on Solar Stills.

There is indeed a lot more going on in the bottle than at first appears. To add further confusion the water bottle was left on the Landing window this morning which is South facing, as opposed to the Kitchen window which faces due East. I add this was not done intentionally, just that I had forgot to take it to the kitchen.

The vapour was again from top to bottom of the bottle, but it was on the side furthest from the Sun. Which is where I would expect it to be. The Sun at this time would not be full on this window, but neither was it full on Kitchen window with the prior example.

The Conundrum continues,

Regards

Gray,

Edited By Graham Meek on 20/11/2022 11:23:44

These first three photographs show how the Original tailstock was assessed. The actual tailstock shown here is the one I modified by adding the aluminium base seen in previous photographs.

The clock was set on the vertical centreline of the lathe and clock Zeroed to the height of my lathes centreline, plus half the diameter of the tailstock barrel. Using slip gauges.

It has been swung through 90 degrees to check alignment in the horizontal axis. As I would expect the clock reads Zero. As the lathe turns dead parallel when turning between centres.

In the vertical the reading is +0.03 mm, which is what I aimed for when I made the aluminium base. As the tailstock base wears-in during use it will only get better.

This is the third position which should, and does mimic the first reading, (although you cannot see).

Going back to the Original tailstock body. The first reading in photo 1 was +0.1 mm, photo 2 was + 0.05 mm and photo 3 was -0.1 mm.

In other words the tailstock body was leaning towards the operator. Another thing that was happening was I could not get a consistent result. the above are the mean values. The tailstock appeared to be rocking diagonally corner to corner.

This could be down to the flat at the rear of the tailstock not being in-line with the Vee location at the front, or visa versa.

How to check which face is at fault follows later,

Regards

Gray,

I understand fully the process involved in evaporation and condensation. It is what is happening with regards to this particular bottle set-up. The vapour does not form on what would logically be the coldest surface next to the down wash from the window. Instead it is skewed around the bottle by 70 or so degrees. Nor does it form at the rear of the bottle furthest away from the sunlight. Instead it forms on the side nearest the sunlight.

I am sure the cylindrical body of the bottle is acting like a Lens and this is why the vapour outline is so parallel down the length of the bottle.

Regards

Gray,

I have been a little busy with the Proxxon Mill lately and have neglected the C5 thread a little. This is the latest thing I have made, which is a double sided Bed Stop. Meaning it can be used either side of the lathe Carriage.

Because the Unimat 3 and U4 share the same Bed profile as the C5 this attachment will fit any of these machines, so while I was at it I made two. One for the Unimat 3 restoration lathe. Two are also handy when using the lathe for milling work. Such as milling a slot in a workpiece.

I used to make these for Neil Hemingway to sell years ago. At the time for purely cost reasons, I used to make them in Aluminium, but retained the Brass clamp pad. As I had two off-cuts of brass in the scrap box these were used instead.

Later over the weekend, I hope to start the reclamation of the Compact 5 Tailstock which I promised earlier in this thread.

Regards

Gray,

Edited By Graham Meek on 18/11/2022 15:40:45

Hi All,

I did think this might stimulate the grey matter.

I will be honest I don't have an answer for this conundrum. I was hoping someone might come up with a link to research, (the PhD), on the subject. Not that I want to read at great length what is going on, but just a simple explanation would be good.

The bottle is indeed closed, or sealed and it contains the last few drops of the water I took to bed with me for a drink during the night before. Humidity in the kitchen first thing is about 75%, according to the de-humidifier. Air temperature would be about 20 C. The window is A rated double glazing with no airflow from outside, ie trickle vent closed.

The closed micro climate put forward by Martin is indeed happening as when the top is taken off and the bottle left, the vapour disappears. Indicating the convection currents go straight out to atmosphere.

One thing I definitely don't get is why the vapour is in the same two o'clock position, with, or without the Sun being out. As clearly the heating of the bottles contents is taken care of by the radiated heat from the Bread Maker. Which would be 180 degrees from the Sun's position.

As regards experiments I have no wish to go down this route, I like to do things by observation and logic whenever possible, but if others wish to go down this route, then by all means feel free to do so, but do let us know how you get on.

Regards

Gray,

Hi Ady1,

While I thank you for your response and I concur with your observation, I feel it is not the whole picture.

The water bottle if observed from above would have the window at twelve o'clock. Thus the side nearest the window should be the coolest. The vapour always tends to form at two to three o'clock. Which coincides with the position of the Sun's rays coming through the window.

The down wash from the window flowing over the edge of the sill onto the counter top. Rather like the Dry Ice special effects mist used on stage performances, flowing off the stage into the audience.

Would I feel tend to make the vapour form nearer the base of the bottle and all the way around the base of the bottle.

This does not happen, the vapour always forms a near perfect vertical band up the entire length of the water bottle. The height of the bottle has no effect, as a taller version of the bottle exhibits the same vertical vapour band.

Placing the water bottle in the window on the cold tiled window sill, yields the same result.

Regards

Gray,

Hi Jeff,

I think your views are on the right track and you may well be right. I was of the opinion that the Sun's rays were being reflected around the curvature of the bottle internally. Thus heating the sides and rear of the bottle more than the side nearest the Sun. Which due to it's shiny surface would tend to reflect some sunlight.

As an aside, and a further observation. On the mornings when the Sun is not out, and the Bread Maker is in use and sits next to the sink. The water bottles still exhibit the same vertical vapour pattern and at about the same two o'clock position. The Bread Maker being at the nine o'clock position.

Which would tend to blow my theory out of the water.

Regards

Gray,

Edited By Graham Meek on 18/11/2022 11:12:55

By way of a bit of mental stimulation, an Observation, and a Conundrum.

I have been noticing the following for sometime. I have a clear plastic water bottle that I use. It is placed on the counter top by the sink to be washed up. The sink is in front of a double glazed window which the water bottle is also in front of.

When it comes to washing up the bottle there is always a film of water condensed on the side of the bottle nearest the window. Even when the bottle is in direct sunlight.

We are taught that a water vapour will always condense, or form on the coldest surface. At first glance this would not seem to be the case. As one would assume the side nearest the Sun would be the warmest.

I don't know if this conundrum has ever been looked into scientifically or not, but I do have a theory as to why this might be happening.

Does the forum have any constructive thoughts, or theories?

Regards

Gray,

One thing I forgot to mention in my above post was that there are two diameters to check with an R8 taper not just the cone, or tapered part.

Should the cone be running true and the inner register be running out then this is down to one of two things.

a) The R8 register was never machined on the true centreline of the spindle.

b) There is a bend in the shaft.

This latter condition would show up using a good clock, (0.002 mm or better) and the part set-up in precision Vee blocks as a run across the bearing register. This run would be along the spindle centreline and the check would only be performed on a static shaft.

Rotating the shaft through 180 degrees should show this defect up but in the opposite sense, (Think Banana shape).

regards

Gray,

The critical items on the shaft are the bearing locations, or registers and the R8 socket. The relationship of these items is what matters.

Checking between centers on the central portion between the bearing registers proves nothing.

To check this properly, place the bearing registers on vee blocks, (you will need to pack one vee block due to the difference in diameters), and clock the R8 taper off these. An alternative would be to mount in the lathe using a fixed steady on the front bearing journal. The splined end held in a 4 jaw is then adjusted to get the other bearing register running true. Once this is done the R8 taper can be clocked.

I would also be inclined to check for a cracked spindle at the cone end. Over tightening of the R8 collets can cause this to happen. Especially if the hardening process on the spindle nose has not been carried out correctly.

Regards

Gray,

Hi Jason,

The square column would be a good fix as regards repeatability but you would loose out on the infinite locations that you get with a round column. In being able to rotate the head about the column axis that is. Of course you would have two easily achievable positions at 90 degrees, and one at 180. There would of course be the loss of being able to mount the milling table to the column using the Emco adapter bracket. Unless of course you make a new bracket as well.

Generally,

Any solution that moves the location point away from the outside diameter of the column, (28 mm or 14 mm R), is going to improve the accuracy. There is a lever ratio of approximately 5:1 present with respect of the vertical spindle centreline to the centreline of the column. Only 0.01 mm of play in any keyway will equate to 0.05 mm movement at the spindle. The less clearance or play present will make the head harder to move up and down.

The slot will without doubt fill with debris, which will soon put paid to any fine tolerances.

If I was looking to repeat my VAD, (Vertical Alignment Device), today I would go down the linear bearing route. Probably a sealed ball bushing and plain hardened shaft, but using the two VAD brackets. This will never wear out and once fitted not give any further trouble.

Regards

Gray,

Edited By Graham Meek on 15/11/2022 12:05:25

Any play, no matter how slight will be magnified due to the distance the spindle is away from the column.

Back in the late 1970's and early 80's I went through a whole host of trials to improve the Emco alignment. The best solution that worked is the one I have shown above.

Michael,

A good suggestion as it would remove the need to machine the column. These linear bearings were not so readily available back in the 1970's, well not cheaply that is. Although we did use plenty of them in my Toolmaking days for pick and place units on robotic tooling.

Regards

Gray,

There is a problem with your clamping arrangement in that you cannot clamp the column and the piece of brass. The slot in the Emco column bracket will distort under clamping. Being wider nearest the column and narrower out by the pinch bolt.

To effectively clamp both is asking a lot and any play in the system will defeat the object of the exercise.

Regards

Gray,