Member postings for Bill Phinn

The die looks, Martin, like it's suffered the ancient Chinese torture called lingchi, aka death by a thousand cuts. Either that or it's been cutting very abrasive material. In your first picture of it, it looked seriously clogged with swarf as well. That's never going to make for easy cutting.

I've attached a picture of my own M10 die for comparison purposes.

ETA: I don't think my die is a Presto after all; I think I bought it from Turbine Jon, which may mean it's the same die as yours.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 14/11/2022 00:30:03

The penny has dropped. I see on closer inspection that you tried to start the thread beyond the dog point but basically got nowhere.

If you were using the same die as the one you cut the complete but bent thread with, then, in the case of this initial and complete failure, I'd say there was not enough force constantly applied pressing the die on to the work to get the thread properly started.

So would I; my purpose was to demonstrate that even using a wood lathe and a hand die holder, and threading bar at the full diameter a useable straight thread can still be cut.

ETA:

Looking at your die, I can't help seeing almost non-existent teeth on it.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 13/11/2022 23:06:26

Martin, can you tell us the brand of die you're using, what it's made of and whether it's split or solid?

The picture below shows an M10x1.5 thread I've just cut on some EN3 mild steel using a woodturning lathe. The bar was held in an ER20 collet chuck in the spindle and the thread turned using a bog-standard two-handled die holder held square against the start of the thread with my drill chuck.

The die was a Presto HSS split die, and the diameter of the section of bar to be threaded was first turned down to exactly 10mm using a hand-held piece of HSS rested across the lathe's banjo.

I wouldn't want to have to do this sort of thing this way very often, but it is perfectly doable all the same. There is no discernible bend in the turned section.

I've tried cutting M10 on EN3 using the wood lathe in the past without success. The only difference in my set-up then was I was using a solid Aldi carbon steel die; it just wouldn't cut. It's that kind of situation that can tempt you to use too much force and then cause things to bend.

Having said all this, I can't see how you can have arrived at the result in your second picture using any kind of M10 die. If I looked at the second picture out of the blue I'd say someone has used a file with the intention of turning a dog-point.

What is your technique, Martin? Can you describe it in detail?

For a real world perspective on how autocratically British Gas [in our case] can behave in respect of switching people to pre-paid meters even if they DO pay, see here:

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=176729&p=4

Curiouser and curiouser.

Thanks, Tony, I've Googled this aplenty, but I'm not seeing the "nice work" by Graham referred to by Michael in this thread's opening post, nor the "practical demonstration" referred to by Clive, which presumably illustrates "the improved drill clamp arrangements" summed up by Thor as "advice on improving the jig". I've seen one photo in a later thread on this forum showing Graham Meek's jig set up next to a Clarke grinder, but nothing I could interpret as a practical demonstration.

The following thread too has frustratingly been purged of images and possibly text as well:

https://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,3788.0.html

There's clearly some reason for the removal of previously visible material from both forums, but I can only guess what that reason might be.

EtA:

Thanks, Michael, for the Van Royen reference, which has enabled me to find this:

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=140032

The related Graham Meek content is presumably now pay-per-view only in some form.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 10/11/2022 18:37:21

Can someone tell me is the content from the earlier part of this thread [presumably by Graham Meek] that has been redacted without acknowledgement viewable somewhere?

I've read a lot about Spiralux and Picador drill grinding jigs on this forum and have recently acquired one of each [they look about forty years old at least but are BNIB]. I'm getting pleasing results with the jigs, but would like to refine my understanding of drill sharpening further, and then possibly refine my jigs and technique.

It depends who your supplier is, Robin:

https://www.bes.co.uk/natural-gas-lpg/gas/meter/

Almost from the beginning of my acquaintance with machine tools, I've assumed these sorts of statements mean the machine is checked in the factory it's made in. Based on my experience of buying a Warco mill, that's certainly where my accuracy report was issued, unless a guy called Zhang Hua who signed off my accuracy report works at Warco's UK HQ.

To me it stands to reason that this is the way things are done, and I've not much objection to it, apart from the slightly misleading impression it may give to the unwary.

What really matters to me is how a supplier deals with problems owners may encounter with machines that are still under warranty, and particularly newly purchased machines.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 09/11/2022 21:08:55

If this isn't a case of the manufacturer failing, unaccountably, to slather the ways et al. with grease before crating, I'd say it's a customer return that was left at Warco's storage facility for some time in the state in which it was returned [i.e. ungreased] and then re-crated and shrink-wrapped without much examination for delivery on to you.

Is there any indication that on/off switches have ever been pressed by grubby fingers, a chuck key has ever turned in the chuck key recesses, or the chuck itself has ever gripped anything?

Just to clarify my position, Michael:

Apologies that I hadn't spotted it was you who originally wrote Qty3.

However, it wouldn't actually have made any difference if I had; I took Rob's word for it that at the time he made his purchase the listing stated QTY3, or something similar, e.g. 3PCs. My point was to ask Rob why, given the wording of the listing, he was surprised to receive three.

It seems after all from his follow-up reply that neither QTY3 nor 3PCs nor anything similar in meaning was actually mentioned in the listing when Rob made his purchase. His earlier reply at 18.13 did however cause Tony and me some justifiable confusion.

It certainly wasn't my intention to go typo-checking, much less to belittle your decision to buy what I myself would probably go for if they had any left in the sizes I want.

Under the circumstances, if you don't receive three I think you're justified in ask the seller why you didn't.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 08/11/2022 21:34:07

What did it mean to you, Rob?

The listing now clearly states "3PCs".

The seller also seems confused about the difference between a collet and a collet chuck.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 08/11/2022 20:07:57

Things to consider that may not have been explicitly mentioned:

1. Are the head/quill of your mill and bench drill plumb to the table and/or vice, both before and during drilling?

2. Are you resting the material to be drilled on parallels in the vice[s]? If not, how are you ensuring it is level?

3. Are the three sides of the material in contact with the vice truly square?

4. Are the vices holding the material firmly so that it can't move during drilling?

Things others have mentioned and I will too:

5. Make sure your drill is ground properly from new. Best way of ensuring this if you can't tell is never to buy cheap drills. A Dormer A120 would be my choice. A 2.5mm one I've got has flawlessly drilled hundreds of through holes in brass. For drilling brass I don't find it necessary to take the sharp edge off the lips when the drill is below 1/8" diameter. However, the bigger the drill is the more vital it is if you're going to be through-drilling brass with them.

6. Spot drill first even if the 2.5mm twist drill is a split point.

14mm AF for an M8 nut is quite commonly met with. An M8 58 piece clamp kit I've got has 14mm AF flange nuts. You'll also find 12mm AF for M8. I've got some 12mm AF M6* nuts [from a toilet seat fastening kit], M10 nuts with both 16mm and 17mm AF, and M12s with 18mm, 19mm and 22mm.

See my photo below, showing commercially made 12, 13, and 14mm AF M8 hex head set screws.

I made some 11mm AF M8 nuts a while ago for use in confined spaces on an angle plate. I think having a variety of AF sizes is good.

*Correction: the M6 toilet seat nuts are 13mm AF!

Edited By Bill Phinn on 05/11/2022 18:02:06

Grinding your milling table true and just stoning it are very different things, Stephen.

After cleaning the worst of the rust off have you run your bare hand over it to confirm that there are any real protrusions on it? Pitting won't matter unless there is rust standing up around the outside of the pits.

Yes, and M2:

https://media.boellhoff.com/files/pdf12/helicoil-kits-repair-solutions-en-0180.pdf

You too apparently found certain content in that thread challenging. I was looking forward to a good answer from you to Hopper's very pertinent question starting "Who is doing this incredible feat of co-ordination...?", but you ignored it.

A shame.

This is not an invitation to answer it now.

Yes, like Hopper I'm inclined to think it's more to do with cost saving than avoidance of error.

Mitutoyo has the added bonus of giving people what it must realise quite a number of them want anyway; I'd imagine most European users would bemoan the absence of imperial units on their digital caliper about as much as they'd bemoan not having miles per hour on their car speedometers - which is probably about as much as if what was missing was parasangs per hour.

Brits' use for kmh is arguably greater. And having a speedometer that can read in both mph and kmh is still a legal requirement in the UK, I think.

The second, third and fourth paragraphs of my second post were intended to explain my reasoning. If you can address the remarks I raise there and point out why they're not valid, I'll be more inclined to regard the banishment of the toggle button as necessary or useful. We're not talking about metric/imperial steel rules here where the unwanted markings that are always on show may justifiably be considered a permanent distraction or source of error.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 26/10/2022 21:51:04