Member postings for Jon Cameron

Hi Brian,

That's how my lathe has "registered" its chuck on a vertical face behind the thread, the thread been a guide and then the vertical face holding the backplate true to the front faced surface for the chuck. Although ive not turned any large diameter, it seems that ive been able to machine quite happily the smaller items I have done.

I believe my spindle has been modified at some point in its life from 1.1/8" to 7/8" 9TPI, perhaps to use existing tooling, the register has nearly all been turned down, sadly. There was an article from Martin Cleave in ME about the large bore conversion he did for his ML4, which would show the dimensions of the nose thread and any register, either vertical or horizontal. Wish we knew where his lovely lathe was today.

Regards

Jon

Hello Ivan,

Please don't try to engage the banjo again whilst the motor is running, firstly this could cause harm to you. secondly it could damage your change gears or even jolt the spindle dependant on speed, and it wont like that much at all.

The change gears will all be joined in pairs by a small metal pin as Howard says above 3/32" dia, and around 1/2" long. this fits into holes drilled in all of your change gears. (unless they have had ML7 ones added later in life). To set up the gear train I always start at the leadscrew, on the leadscrew put your largest gear, (hole for pin facing outwards). The nut you describe sounds like a dodge to an earlier crash to the lathe where the collar that should be fitted has suffered damage, insert the pin into the change gear on the leadscrew, and assuming there is a grub screw tighten this onto the flat on the leadscrew. This should now have the gear engaged with the leadscrew. Add the bajo bolts and working in pairs set up a reduction on each banjo, 60/20, 65/25 teeth gears. again joined with the pin through their holes. to set the gear spacing correctly, I ran strips of printer paper through the gears before finally tightening down on their position, the paper sets a small gap in the gears, Too tight and the gears will sound awful and wear quickly.

Once the gears are set up and nicely spaced. With the power off, bring the banjo up to the gear on the spindle, there should be a 1/4" BSF hex bolt by the leadscrew that bolts into the banjo from the bracket. Tighten this bolt (replace if missing) to set the banjo into position, spin the lathes spindle bay hand a few turns to make sure there is nothing going to instantly jam up, then set the lathe away under power. The handle at the front leading side of the apron is to engage the halfnuts that clamp onto the leadscrew to drive the saddle.

This pic will show where the bolt goes through the banjo into the bracket, you are viewing the banjo from the headstock side, not the changegear side in this photo, also shows the small holes for the pins in the changegears, as you can see these are not drilled through.

As Howard says If you can provide your Serial number and possibly a picture of the lathe I will do my best to date it. The serial number can also be found stamped under the cross slide, which is possibly the easiest one to get at without disturbing any setting of the lathe, (just make sure you catch the gib thatll fall from the right hand side, and install it the same way when screwing the cross slide back on). The other easy one is under the tailstock casting. Going off what you have posted above I would say its pre 1938. But I cant be much more specific than that just yet, as i'm still compiling the data.

Edited By Jon Cameron on 11/05/2020 12:11:47

Hi Andrew,

I wont go into detail with removing bull gear as already said above if you search out the thread Brian covers that very well, but if you get stuck my machine is currently apart so I can provide pics of assembly if required.

The gear on the apron, it does screw on, behind it is a small 1/4" split washer, before it goes into the apron, if yours keeps unscrewing then firstly turn it around so that the unused section of the gear is facing the lathe bed when installed this will help to lower some backlash on the traverse. Remove the gear and clean down/degrease. put a little threadlock on the thread (just a drop) before screwing the gear home flush with the end of the spindle. On the other end of the apron there should be a washer and a locknut to adjust the tension a then the handle screws on up against the handle to secure the assembly.

I haven't had experience of the quick change toolposts, I use a four way toolpost that came with the lathe, it takes a variety of tools from 1/4" upto 3/8" and all are on centre, when used in conjuction with packing strips or steel, and beer can for fine adjustment, you'll have to finish off the contents first but i'm sure that wont be much hardship.

As Howard says above, Im compiling a list of serial numbers for the lathes, and id be interested if you could provide yours, though looking at just the headstock I am assuming it to be a later one.

Regards

Jon

Edited By Jon Cameron on 11/05/2020 11:07:08

Robert yes sorry I wasn't clear, the ML2 in your album photos. If you don't mind as I said I'm compiling a list with a view to show differences and try and date the lathes, unfortunately Myford destroyed all the papers and records, including customer details and addresses, for the older lathes. Probably a wise move in this day and age of data protection but sadly does nothing to date the old myfords.

Brian, that's very helpful, if you happen to have a picture or can show some differences, your dad's lathe with that info dates two others from the myford Facebook group. I now have two dates one for lathes starting LH, of which mine is, and yours which means I can date five of the lathes I have serial numbers for with a fair degree of accuracy. It's all jotted down at the moment and I need to get it digitised along with photos to show the various differences such as the headstock changes from bolting from the top into the bed, then later bolting into the headstock through the bed. A long mission an I did post on the forum but haven't recieved much response in regards to serial numbers or photos of lathes.

So far with regards to serial number stamping, I have seen it on the leadscrew end, base of the headstock, saddle, cross slide, tailstock, and obviously bed too. I suppose it made sense with the volume produced that everything had a serial number so headstock and tailstock didn't get mixed up ect. 

Edited By Jon Cameron on 07/05/2020 22:35:08

Hi Robert, just had a look at your photos of the ML2 in your photos, It appears that it doesn't have the grub screws, but yours is an early version of the ML2, note the difference in the bolt arrangement for the headstock at the chuck end. yours isn't rounded off to meet the bed, but instead has two flats. earlier ones were bolted from above, yours seems to be bolted from underneath but still retains the older casting. If you wouldn't mind i'm compiling a list of myford serial numbers and differences between them all throu 1-4 types. Would you be able to tell me what the serial number of yourML2 is please?

Hi Luke thanks for the links, What's interesting to note is that the last lathe is an A1 which was built by Drummond allowing myford to concentrate on other manufacture. A1 and A2 denotes the ML4 and ML2 respectively. The position of the screws could be an indication of who built the lathe. Considering the second one, is another example of lathe that is missing the myford cast onto the side. and the offset position yet again of the grub screws in the same position as the last, could indicate these were both build by Drummond. Or at least in the later years of production.

Is one of the headstocks cast as one with the bed? if so it wouldn't need the grub screws, as the spindle runs against the cast iron headstock. There is numerous examples that show the grub screws to retain the bearings from spinning. You only have to do a google image search to see them. There is also a lot spoken across forums about the inherent weakness across the oiling point and bearing retaining screw holes if you over tighten them.

I cant see that many examples of owners deciding off their own back to drill their headstock out and tap them for the BSF retaining screw. So although its not mentioned it is not to say that its not standard fit for the production. of myfords. Much as the adjusting screws for the half nuts are not mentioned but there still there.

Thank you both that puts my mind at ease and I can just continue on installing them. I cant recollect where I read that, maybe I am confusing it with the spindle bearings and things written about that.

Jon

Hello,

I understand that grease is a no no for the pillow block bearings when used with a lathe, so my question is firstly how to you feed oil into the bearings, secondly what oil and how much needs adding, replenishing when in use.

The bearings I have are these ones from simply bearings.

**LINK**

I have read that filling them can create them to run hot as the oil "churns" inside. I need to adapt the layshaft mounting holes to fit them but wanted to know what to use.

Sorry for the daft question but the technical data i've read has just lead to confusion, with adding sight glasses and drains ect, which I don't feel are necessary

I think Michaels suggestion of gauge plate is a sound one. the strips are hard ground metal surface and gauge plate would fit the bill nicely. There will also be longer lasting than bronze ones which may flex with the limited adjusting screws on the ML4.

Alternatively you could rub the original on some increasingly fine wet and dry with oil, on some plate glass or a granite chopping board. then once done check for flatness using a verdict DTI on the surface plate (granite chopping board). If you want to completely replace it then I think that gauge plate is your first option, not sure of the dimensions on the ML7 and how they compare to the ML4. but if they are the same, a new ML7 one cut down to size would be a more expensive option.

Hi Luke, Above photo, the lower surface on the underneath of the beds ways, is the clamping surface the fixed steady uses on my lathe. mine measures 1/4" but is tight on two ribs so 3/16" may be a better thickness for the clamp. As with my reply above buy two feeler gauge sets from toolstation or similar, mine cost around £5 each. you can then measure the gap on the underside of the ways for reference, and use both to check the gap when reinstalling the spindle. been able to clamp the bolts tight down onto the gauges while checking the spindle still turns freely.

Jon

Hi Luke,

Yes as discussed, and shown above the bearings have rotated in the headstock, and there is no way to adjust the slack out of the bearings, and close them down onto the spindle.

Robert the grub screws are a standard factory fit item their position has changed from the earlier models but this is probably due to the amount of people suffering the cracked headstock, so the screws been off set help to eliminate a weak point with the two holes for oil and grub screw been in line.

As correctly said by Robert with the slit in the position shown there is a real risk of the headstock cracking, so check alignment of slit and grub screw/oil holes on reassembly, studying your photos that the posted a link to it would appear that the rear bearing doesn't seem to line up with the oil hole, although it could be just the angle the photo is taken, but these are my reasons for assuming the bearings have been installed front to back, and back to front, as well as been spun at an awkward angle for adjustment.

I was playing with my spindle last night, (nothing rude), and have managed to get my bearings, which are in much worse condition than yours, to vertical play of 0.0005", Horizontal play of 0.0045", and end float to 0.0005", runout is less than 0.0005", as sometimes my indicator shows it sometimes it doesnt. So still more work to do adjusting the bearings and bolts. I plan to remove the shims, and take out the 0.0015 one replacing it with layers of kitchen foil. to accurately build up the thickness. I then have some peelable shim which I will peel back to the right thickness and use under the clamps to set the correct gap for the spindle to tighten down onto. Still for a lathe that's 80 year old, and old bearings, original spindle, I don't think that's too bad at all. not brilliant and can be improved but not bad.

Luke I think I've worked out why you may have been having issues parting off and with vibrations. Your bearings for the spindle have been installed back to front. The front one should be at the rear, and the rear one at the front. Have a look at the slots in the bearing, and the slots for the clamp bolts. Also the orientation of the grub screws, front and rear to the bearing shells as they were installed. The grub screws that you tightened up are there to locate into the tapped holes of the shells. Also get rid of that washer at the rear, buy two cheap feeler gauge sets from toolstation or similar, and use these to close down on to as you set the correct position. If your clever you can then sacrifice one set of gauges so that you still have a complete one and make up the gap using just one set once you know it. It looksas though the bearing shells have rotated in the headstock housing, therefore you will never be able to adjust out any of the play in the spindle.

I've just looked to see if there is a photo in my gallery but unfortunately not.

Unfortunately I only had chance to look over the photos tonight. 

Edited By Jon Cameron on 06/05/2020 21:15:24

Thanks Michael,

I have also posted the steady on a new thread, as it's likely to get lost in this one for anyone searching the forum via Google. It can be found here for reference. **LINK**

It'll also be posted on a couple of myford related facebook groups in the files section as the PDF. So is easy to find again.

Luke, I do have the materials in stock that were dug out the skip at work. so I could possibly get the steady to the point where you need to just make the fixing bolts and finger parts for it. I have already volunteered myself to make one, which is why the drawings were produced. Most of it can be made up on the pillar drill, but until i've got my lathe back together I cant turn the fingers, bolts, and base clamp for you.

Jon

Hi Brian's correct on the morse taper in the spindle. The earlier ones utilised MT1 tapers, and the 7/8" 9TPI nose thread. This went into production as a standard item, the tumble reverse was an optional extra, as was the uprated tailstock, which looks more like the M-type tailstock. A thread dial indicator and also conical bronze dials were amongst the options available. As well as the accessories detailed in Michaels link above.

The travelling steady used just a solid piece of steel screwed on the side, again pretty useless for a good surface finish, and I think a ball bearing arrangement below and to the rear axis of the lathe on the support finger would be helpful to eliminate the steady messing up the finish of the workpiece

Regards

Jon

Edited By Jon Cameron on 06/05/2020 12:06:34

Hi Michael,

That may be clearer than the windows snipping tool I used for the image posted above.

Ive replied to your PM and email sent. It could be utilised on other lathes with a slotted gap and even on an ML7 for smaller work, though I think the base should be increased to help with ridgidity in that case. Also the clamp bolt would need lengthening to allow a good contact with under the bed. I know the Alomco milling attachment needed to have smaller clamps (by 1/4" length I think) to clear the casting under the bed.

Jon

Edited By Jon Cameron on 06/05/2020 11:17:26

Hello,

Well i've no idea how to load a PDF to the forum. So here's a snip of the PDF from my screen instead. Feel free to PM me with your email and ill happily send the PDF to you. The steady can be built up using 20x100mm Mild Steel flat, and 10mm Mild steel flat, 6mm and 12mm round stock. The threads can also be changed within reason to suit yourself. Its drawn in imperial as that's what bolts most old myfords use so made sense. The critical dimensions are the centre height and bore. All others can be played with easily. It can also be adapted for the 3.1/8" centre height lathes by simply reducing the centre height and then work dimensions from around the bore. The main lower body can be welded or even bolted together.

Please note the dotted line on the lower hinge part needs to be followed. I'm afraid I wasn't going to start again, If anyone notices any other issues with the drawing let me know. If there's a few ill redraw it. It dawned on me that not only would it not close if built as drawn it wouldn't even go together. Also should have written on the drawing to check clamp bolt for length from job, but you already knew that.

Hello,

Well i've no idea how to load a PDF to the forum. So here's a snip of the PDF from my screen instead. Feel free to PM me with your email and ill happily send the PDF to you. The steady can be built up using 20x100mm Mild Steel flat, and 10mm Mild steel flat, 6mm and 12mm round stock. The threads can also be changed within reason to suit yourself. Its drawn in imperial as that's what bolts most old myfords use so made sense. The critical dimensions are the centre height and bore. all others can be played with easily. It can also be adapted for the 3.1/8" centre height lathes by simply reducing the centre height and then work dimensions from around the bore. The main lower body can be welded or even bolted together.

Please note the dotted line on the lower hinge part needs to be followed. I'm afraid I wasn't going to start again, If anyone notices any other issues with the drawing let me know. If there's a few ill redraw it. It dawned on me that not only would it not close if built as drawn it wouldn't even go together. Also should have written on the drawing to check clamp bolt for length from job, but you already knew that.

Luke I hope this is of great help to you. Ill Look at the travelling steady next week.

Now then Michael, that's intruging indeed!!! I'd seen that publishing once already but hadn't paid attention to the myford part number. What year was that sales magazine published??? The fixed steady I have is M47, which predates those part numbers, plus mine was in Myford colours, though in my opinion poorly machined. As Brian says it has crude 1/4" steel fingers with not a lot of regard to the surface finish.

Luke you'll be pleased to hear that I have just finished the drawings tonight for the fixed steady. So will take into work tomorrow and scan them before posting. There is an error on the hinge, but follow guidance of the dotted line and you'll not go far wrong. These have taken the best part of 8hours to draw up so I wasn't going to start again, just point out the error of my ways. The hardest part was trying to fit all the drawings onto a single A4 sheet, without missing any information/measurement, Plus it had to be legible.

Hi Brian, I've heard of stories of men having to swindle the system to be able to buy a lathe and other tools after the war time years. There was little resources and the idea of buying a lathe for pleasure, instead of using it to get Britain back on its feet, well...... Its does make me smile of Curly tucked away in a bunker machining away on his little lathe. Bits of scrap, that he turned into loco's, and even simple toys for the young enthusiast. Then retiring to the house to respond to letters and write articles for ME.

His garden railway was very nearly blown to bits at one point, been adjacent to a main line. I'll leave it there as its slightly off topic for this thread, but always amuses me.