Member postings for Arnljot Seem

Yes, I have limited experience with milling and ER collets, but have long consumer experience with tools of all sorts. I have been working with cars and other mechanical installations for over 30 years as a hobby. My father owned an electronics factory that had a large machining department with many advanced milling and turning machines. I used to work there every summer from 12 to 24. I know what quality electronics and mechanical work looks and feels like. The ER collets I received, from I guess China (No manufacturer name, no country of origin), were in your first category, JUNK. The problem for me as a consumer is that I don't know what I get when I order a no-brand Chinese stuff from an online shop. I am sure you pick and chose the good stuff when you select your goods, but I don't know that when I place my first order. The Chinese have, unfortunately for their good manufacturers, worked up a reputation for making things cheap but not very good. Say Swiss, and I think high quality. Say Chinese, and I think cheap and mostly rubbish. There is a reason used machines, tools and tooling from Europe and America is so sought after and relatively expensive: quality. An old beat up bench vice from a known European manufacturer cost more than a brand new Chinese. My Myford Super 7 lathe was purchased by my dad for his factory in the late fifties, and still works great. It has been my platform for learning turning.

I have been burned too many times, and got fooled again. The collet set were €110 for 18 collets and Regofix are €150 for the six I need (now). I will probably use those collets in 30 years if I live that long... Of course I willingly buy Chinese goods (at the expense of the European worker) many times. Sometimes its good enough for what I am doing, and I don't need to use it much. Many times I have to dump it, and fork out the money for a quality piece.

Sorry for the rant, I have nothing against ARC and the goods you sell, I am a customer and will return. It's just that our crave for cheap stuff has become a disease that is ruining our economy and the planet. My parents had stuff that lasted a lifetime. Today we fill our homes with junk that lasts a couple of years at best. It costs nothing, so nothing gets repaired. I find great pleasure in restoring and improving quality objects like my Myford from the fifties and my Schaublin from the seventies. Btw, my cars ar older quality cars as well.

Arnljot (an old fart that thinks everything was better before

I measured the diameter of the top surface, where the end-mill is inserted, and compared the Regofix to the Chinese collets. The surface of the cheap collet was a full 0.5mm larger in diameter than on the Regofix collet. This means that he taper will be "engaged" sooner and the collet compressed more when snapped into the nut. Since the end-mill will fit before the collet is snapped into the nut, the extra compression explains why I can not fit the mill while in the nut.

However, I received another collet chuck and nut yesterday, an this nut is obviously different. Using this chuck, I am able to fit the end-mills in the collets. I do think the collets sits a bit sloppy in there, and they tend to fall out when chaken. Buying collets and chucks from different vendors is obviously not a good idea.

I realize i did some stupid choices; first buying cheap unnamed collets and then buying a chuck from a different place. (The first vendor did not have the correct chuck.) The new chuck is from Vertex, and seem to be of reasonable quality. I have since discovered that a Regofix chuck come at the same price as Vertex. The collets are more expensive though.

The Vertex chuck seems to be of decent quality though. I'd like to hear if others have experience with them.

I think I will resolve this by returning the Vertex chuck, and order a Regofix and a smaller selection of Regofix collets. They are about €23-24 (£20 ish) a piece before sales tax.

Lesson learned: stay away from cheap Chinese junk, better to buy less tools of high named quality.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Thanks for the great response to my question. This really is a helpful community.

I just wanted to share a picture of the direct-collets for the ISO30 taper that came with the mill. The great advantage with these is the ease of use, rigidity, and extra headroom. Sometimes however, it is an advantage with some distance between the spindle and the work piece, so that is when the ER holder comes in handy.

These direct collets go on ebay for close to €50 a piece, so rather expensive. Fortunately, I have 6,10, 12 and 16mm, so I really only need an 8 and a 20 to cover my immediate needs.

Thanks for all the help. I'll let you know how things work with the new collet holder next week.

Edited By Arnljot Seem on 01/09/2016 20:30:45

Interesting points. I got ER32 for the 20mm span since I needed 20mm end mills. Maybe these are better held in a Weldon holder. I was also looking at OZ collets, they seem to be very popular in Switzerland.

Since I'm just starting out, it was hard to make the correct selection at first go, and this was also part of the reasoning behind buying a less expensive collet set. I just didn't know what would be the best choice for my needs. I also have a tool holder for ER16 collets, I might get some ER16 collets later

Thanks Bikepete, glad you enjoyed it. I have some more footage, but haven't had the time to edit. I don't care so much for the editing part of making Youtube videos, and som many of the Youtubers are so clever at this. Wish I enjoyed editing more....

Do you have contact with others with SV53 experience?

Arnljot

Yes, as stated in the OP, a 12 mm tool fits perfectly in the Regofix 12mm. Same holder and nut.

The fact that this is well used might have something to do with it. As Ajohnw says: "I suspect your problem is precise collets and the fact that they are ER32 - a lot more metal to bend ". Just like new shoes, they hurt in the beginning, but as you wear them in, they fit much better

Arnljot

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have measured the shanks of the end mills I'm using, and they measure spot on the value in question, whether 10 or 20mm. So it is not variance in shank size that is the problem.

I have thought about that the nut might be the culprit, I do have another tool holder on the way, so then I will be able to test if this makes a difference. I measured the inside bore of the collet before and after snapping it into the nut. While very close to nominal size before snapping it into the nut, the reduction in bore size afterwards was surprising, close to 50/100th of a millimeter smaller.

Regarding the quality I have chosen: Of course wouldn't we all liked to buy the best there is to find in the marked when it comes to tooling. Since this is my first mill, there is so much equipment I need, so I had to compromise some on the quality on certain purchases. I buy quality where it counts, and didn't think cheaper collets would be a problem. However, based on the shank sizes on the various mills I have purchased, I did not really need a full 19 (or 20) piece collet set to start with. In retrospect, I would rather have bought fewer quality collets, and this might be what I end up doing.

Thanks Michael, that was an interesting read, but debated more on the run out than my fitting problem. Although, it did confirm that a 10-9 collet has the nominal size for a 10 mm end mill. The Regifix link held interesting info as well.

I am just not able to push that 10mm end mill into the 10-9 collet once the nut is snapped in place, let alone when fitted into the chuck. If I try hard, I'm just blemishing the shank. Same story for my 20-19 collet and a 20 mm end mill and others. They are just too small, and the shank of the mills measures precisely to the numbers expected.

Arnljot

Hi. I feel this is a beginner question. I just finished restoring a Schaublin 22 mill, and have barely made "first cut" I have just purchased some tooling from SanTool in Germany, received it today. Got lots of nice stuff, and also purchased an ER32 collet set. I already had the collet holder, ISO 30 (unknown brand) and one 12 mm Rego Fix collet that came with the mill

The ER 32 set was not terribly (round €100) but I expected the fit to be better It is a metric set with two mm range pr. collet. So for instance there is one 9-10mm collet, and a 10-11mm.

A 10 mm end mill slides neatly into the 9-10mm collet alone, but once I mount it in the nut, there is no way I can fit the end mill. The 10-11 is way to big, and the end mill will only sit in the holder when I have tightened the nut hard. Milling works fine, but once I loosen the nut, the end mill falls out.

Is this the way things work, or is it a result of too cheap, probably Chinese collets?

My RegoFix collet fits precisely even after the collet nut has been mounted on the collet

Apeciate any insight into my little collet mystery.

Cheers

I was headed for a small CNC mill when I found Adam Booths (Abom79) channel. After following him for a while I decided I wanted to learn manual milling first. I have just finished restoring a Schaublin 22 mill that I got really cheap. Well, restoring.... I had to build all the electric and electronics from scratch, restore the motor and fix the gearbox. The rest was in good shape after a resoration by the previous owner, My first mill, and I just made "first cut". All thanks to Adam. Love his channel.

Stefan was also mentioned; I really learn a lot from him. He is very detail oriented, and really know his craft. Another Youtuber I like is ThisOldTony. Very funny american living in Italy

Toms Techniques and Pierre's Garage are also worth checking out.

Hello. I just want to thank you all for the help with my metric vs imperial question. Below is a picture of my well used Super 7 lathe, that I am gradually restoring. Also a picture of my first ever lathe "project"; using the answers from this forum, to cut an M8x1.25 mm thread. Since I was missing the 40T which is used in many of the metric standard threads, I found this table very useful in finding other gear combinations to cut the same thread. http://www.homews.co.uk/page30.html

Thank you all for the valuable information. If I determine that the probable worn lead screw and half nut needs to be replaced. Would there be any benefit of having a metric screw and half nut made instead of buying a new imperial one? One of my fathers previous employees is running a rather nice machine shop, and I could ask for a price. Probably a lot more expensive than buying an 8tpi, but if the benefits are great.....

Regards

Arnljot

Thank you all, for the overweliming support. I did set up a dial indicator, but since my indicator only have 10 mm travel, I measured only one turn. I got really varying readings, from 3.05 per hand wheel turn, but when I measured closer to the tail stock I could see that the readings were in the 3.17-3.18 region. Not the best accuracy, and I made sure to take out the back lash when changing directions. Also the hand wheel is exactly as pictured above. (isn't it really reading 3.19 for a full turn from zero to zero?)

Could this variations in readings depending on the location be due to a worn lead screw or half nut?

So most certainly, this is a standard 8 tpi imperial lead screw, with a metric hand wheel. Was it so hard, when everything else was made metric (even the slide feed screws), to make a metric lead screw?

In any case, it seem straight forward to make metric threads with the 8 tpi lead scree, although as I understand, using the 21T gear is an approximation that works for shorter threads. I also understand that a 127T gear would be more correct. This being my first lathe experience, doing very simple things, I think this will work just fine. As a bonus I get to learn everything from scratch, instead of just twisting a few knows and not having a clue what is actually going on.

Since this is my first post, here is a little background: I am a computer engineer living in Norway, but educated in the US. I have been in the computer business for a good 25 years now, and work mostly with network security these days. I'm in the second half of my 50's now, and doing some soul searching regarding my professional life i miss the fact that I have never made anything. I'm only utilizing equipment that other people develop and produce, and thinking back on all the great stuff my fathers shop designed and manufactured, this feels some what of a void. Everything is made in China these days, and Europe is unfortunately just "cutting each others hair" as we say in Norway. So for the last few years, I have been tinkering with some electronics projects (Arduino, Raspberry Pi etc) and have built myself a small and simple lab. For the last few years, I've had a growing interest in machining. After reading a lot, and having watched countless hours of very good and interesting Youtube videos, I'm finally taking the leap into my machining adventure.

I have been looking for a lathe (and a mill) for a while, but remembered that there was an old lathe in my late fathers estate. He started is own business in the 50's, manufacturing professional electronics such as power supplies for military systems and later for minicomputers (he actually made the power supply for some of the very first computers developed in Norway), large audio mixers for broadcasting etc. Very many interesting things, and I used to work there every summer from the age of 12. They also had a very well equipped machine shop, with som very talented craftsmen. I remember this little tired lathe from my younger years, sitting in a corner of the machine shop. They used it for simpler things and the shop was full of very advanced machinery. This little lathe was the very first machine my father purchased for his newly started business. So taking this lathe into my own shop, restoring and taking it into my personal use feels very special.

I quickly found that the Myford Super 7 was a very popular machine, with many users and great help on the forums. There is also easy to get spare parts, and other options both from the Myford company (is it the original Myford company?) and other suppliers.

Thank you for all your help.

Edited By Arnljot Seem on 24/01/2016 17:46:50

I have just acquired an old Myford Super 7, and I am investigating the current configuration of this. The serial number indicates that it was made in the 1955-58 time frame. It does not have a quick change gear box. As Norway has been for a long time in the metric territory, I was hoping that this Myford had a metric set up.

According to the Myford web site, a metric lathe can be identified by the micrometer scales on the slides' hand wheels reading 0-40 (as opposed to 0-100 on the imperial lathes), and the feed screw (on the slides) having a 2mm pitch. This confirms my hopes that this indeed is a metric Super 7. No mention of a metric lead screw can be found. Also, in all the information I have found on the Internet, it is indicated that even the metric Super 7 lathes had a 8 tpi imperial lead screw.

However, when I measure the pitch on my lead screw to the best of my ability, I come to a conclusion that my lathe has a 3mm pitch on the lead screw.

Did Myford or other companies ever make a metric lead screw for the Super 7?

Thank you.