Member postings for Carl Wilson 4

Hello All,

Removed the leadscrew and saddle today. Leadscrew handwheel is secured by two locked nuts and transmits drive via a slot engaging a transition fit pin in the screw. Once the Handwheel was off I drove this pin out and then threaded the screw towards the headstock to gain enough clearance for removal. During this I discovered that the driving feature on the full nut - a threaded section that engages a slot in the saddle - had sheared off. It was not possible to take the leadscrew out via the tailstock end due to a transition fit collar on the screw.

Once the screw was out I threaded the full not off, and it rapidly became apparent that the internal thread was very worn.

After removing the transition fit collar, I gave the leadscrew a preliminary clean and it looks to be in decent condition. One thing that gives me pause is that the thread form of the leadscrew. Maybe it is just my eyes but it looks square as opposed to acme. Does this ring any bells for anyone? I had better find out as I will need to make a new nut.

The next job is to clean 95 years of dirt from the bed and then see what condition the ways are in. Hopefully you can make sense of the photographs and what I have written.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 01/02/2014 20:47:40

"One of the advantages of reading ME articles on eg Loco construction that some on here moan is so boring and blah blah they won't subscribe any more, yes the advantage is you pick up ideas for this kind of thing and store it away in your brain for use ten years down the line."

What would be even better would be if the article was about solving this problem and the loco bit was left out entirely.Far more chance of remembering the technique then.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 01/02/2014 21:04:18

Hi Nick,

I appreciate what you say, as I say I work in the marine sector and I have seen a lot of motors swamped by sea water and they almost always survive, likewise knocks and jarring, etc.

The motor I have received may well be fine. That said, my problem with RJW is that when I pay for a new, undamaged item I expect to receive a new undamaged item. There is nothing to stop them from fitting a new foot to the motor and sending it straight back to me, this is true. I would hope though that they would not be so unscrupulous; my dealings with them so far have been very cordial and their sales engineer could not have been more helpful. I see what has happened as a one off aberration, and I would hope that they'd seek to correct that.

Carl.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 01/02/2014 10:44:03

Hi,

Thats a fair point, I work on board ships and I regularly see induction motors swamped by waves. They almost always survive. The fact of the matter in this case is that I paid good money for a brand new unit. I expect to receive a brand new unit, not a refurbished one, or one with broken parts or bits missing. I expect the company sending the component to me to take reasonable care to ensure that it arrives in one piece, and not just sling it in the box with the merest hint of packing.

Knowing my luck I will. Time to get the UV pen out.

Hi Nobby,

That's a great job you've made of your machine. Hopefully I can do the one I have justice.

Carl.

Hi Jason,

My thoughts exactly. The fan cowl also has light damage which gives me serious pause. I just do not want to fit this motor as I have a sneaking suspicion the decision to do so will come back to bite me in the proverbial. In a previous life I was an Aircraft Engineer. Spares and components were packed with a level of protection that would be prohibitively expensive in any other industry. Anything that was not absolutely perfect - in any regard - went straight back through the stores system and ultimately to the manufacturer. Old habits die hard.

Carl.

Hello All,

Thanks for that Nobby. This afternoon I started to strip down the machine. Started removing the major sub assemblies in order to get a good look at the bed. Photograph below of bed with cross slide still in situ.

So far headstock is removed and partially dismantled, spindle and bearings are out. Spindle looks to be in decent condition without any major wear. Likewise the bearings, early indications are good. Some light scoring but nothing that won't polish out. Some superficial damage to one of the threads but nothing to write home about. There was no detectable play in the bearings pre stripdown. See photograph above. Clutch sleeve removed from leadscrew.

Have managed to locate the elusive serial number under all the dirt. It is located at the tailstock end of the leadscrew side bed shear, just as the literature says. It is 2832 which gives a date of manufacture of 1919. So she is 5 years shy of her telegram from Her Majesty. Also photograph above.

Most of the piece parts are in reasonable condition, the block that locks the bull wheel to the drive pulley is quite worn, but should be fairly straightforward to make. The thrust ring that threads onto the end of the spindle has been fairly well chewed up. Someone has used a hammer and punch to tighten it rather than a peg spanner that I assume would have been supplied with the machine when new. Again ring should be easy to make.

More dismantling to follow tomorrow, followed by cleaning and checking the bed.

Carl.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 31/01/2014 19:39:33

Well, we shall find out some time next week.

Hello,

Yes. A can would just about hold the oil that is left...

Well, email sent regarding my rejection of the offer of a new foot for the existing motor and requesting a new motor. Will wait and see what happens next.

In the meantime my mill/drill is out of action until I can get a motor and get on with my 3ph conversion.

Carl.

Hi Steve,

I would echo GaryM's comments regarding the engine crane. If you can't get one in about the pallet then its worth cutting some of the pallet away with a circular saw.

I think that you'll find this forum to be a great resource and everyone is helpful and forthcoming with advice. I'm not really a "model engineer" in the sense of making scale models of locomotives etc, but my home engineering encompasses machining, welding, electronics, and design and so I share common cause with many who post here. As you say there is a vast range of interests and experience here with the overarching theme of machining and engineering.

Carl.

With regard to Independence, it has to be remembered that Mr. Salmond is attempting to whip up a fervour of patriotism based on half truths and a selective and in many cases plain wrong interpretation of history. And entirely for his own ends at that. Not to mention peddling the inflated opinion and speculation presented in the White Paper as fact. Exactly the same tactics employed by Adolf Hitler during the 1930s.

My patriotism and that of everyone I speak to is based around a pride in being British and the heritage of the British nation. I am ex Royal Air Force and I spent many years serving alongside men and women from England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the Commonwealth. All of us from the home nations and further afield working together for a common goal, united beneath the Union Flag. I agree with Lord Lang in that a vote for independence would dishonour every name etched on every war memorial in every town, city and village throughout Scotland. If that were not enough, the Nationalists would destroy the family of the United Kingdom and run Scotland into the ground, purely to satisfy their own fanatically held beliefs. They must not be allowed to get away with it.

Phew...anyway, RJW Engineering want me to accept a new foot for the motor. Needless to say, I'm not going to. You have all put it better than I could with regard to accepting a motor that has been shoogled about on it's way to me.

Carl.

Hello Nobby,

Yes I meant topslide, slip of the tongue, or rather of the keyboard. I suspect the topslide has been lost over time.

Thanks for posting the picture of your machine. It looks very good indeed. I think making a topslide will be on the cards along with many other tasks.

I am developing a soft spot for these little machines.

Carl.

Hi Hopper,

That is what I am thinking. Fortunately I have a decent workshop that is integral to my house. I've got a Harrison M250 and a decent mill/drill, both well tooled. As well as that I have TIG welding equipment. I can make almost anything I need and I'm not relying on this old Drummond to be my main machine either now or in the future.

Would agree with your comments regarding the Asian lathes. That said if it were not for them a lot of people would not get into home shop engineering. A large part of my motivation to restore this machine comes from a sense of respect for it's age and it's place as a piece of heritage both for my family and British manufacturing.

That means I can pretty much justify anything to get it back into good order, and time isn't really an issue. I think that the only thing that would make me think twice about continuing would be if the bed was in a really bad way. Feeling pretty optimistic about that at the moment though.

One other thing, the photographs in Sparey lead me to believe that the 4 jaw that was with this machine (seen in my photograph above) is original.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 31/01/2014 08:31:08

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 31/01/2014 08:52:46

Morning All,

Well, first thing this morning I got my copy of Sparey down from my bookshelf. Lots of interesting photographs of Drummond B types inside. Notably the photograph on pp 39. This type B was apparently owned by a Mr. H. E. White, of the North London S.M.E. I wonder what happened to him.

I can always remember having seen or read something. Unfortunately I never seem to recall where....

Hopefully will get the machine stripped today and get some measurements made on the bed, see if I need to get it surface ground. Although it looks horrendous I'm hoping it will be basically OK under all the crud.

Carl.

Hi Robbo,

Good point. As you can see from my photo my motor was "packed" for transit in this way. I did not move the motor but took the photo as I found it. Camera phones are a great development!

Carl.

Very true!

Not your usual money grabbers and nest featherers these though. Formed in the early thirties, the SNP attempted to dissuade Scots from joining the British Army to fight against Germany in 1939. They were all set to collude freely and fully with the Nazis, had Britain been invaded, in order to secure their aim of the break up of the UK.

Carl.

Hello Ady,

Thanks for the info, I've already joined this group and I hope to get a lot of help from it. I am in the Harrison Yahoo group and this has also been a great help.

Carl.

It was not my intention to pour scorn on your comment. Quite the reverse.

The idea that commerce between an independent Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom would be adversely affected is something that the Nationalists are trying hard to refute. Likewise Mr. Salmond's pronouncements on retention of the pound, membership of the EU, taxation, tuition fees, the postal service, national debt, defence....the list goes on and on. The whole concept of independence is a nonsense and would be detrimental to the people of Scotland and the rest of the UK. Mr Salmond would get his name in the history books though, so that would be ok.

I'm not really sure how we got from my damaged motor to the issue of breakup of the UK. That said, this is an issue I feel very strongly about and the insidious motives of those who seek to bring it about need to be exposed at every turn.