Member postings for Dan_B

Tibbsey - I'm considering an Invertek e3 drive but cannot see any information in the manual about emergency stop functions. Just wondered if you wired in an emergency stop and how you did it?

Invertek offer an IP66 drive which makes it quite convenient and also has built in EMC. The manual is written well too so I like this option but haven't work out how to install an E-stop.

Regards

Dan

Thanks for all the responses - I wasn't sure how much 'head room' an AC transformer should have but seems my initial thoughts of 150VA are about right.

For info the Align unit I received doesn't have a plug. I presumed they manufactured them 110V for safety.

Align do sell a transformer but it was out of stock when I bought my feed from Chester a couple of weeks ago.

Regards,

Dan

Hi,

I am a bit of a novice when it comes to AC transformers so would appreciate a second opinion on my choice please.

The Align power feed unit is 110V, 90watt and 1amp so would a 150VA transformer be correct or should I go a little higher with a 250VA?

Stepping down from 240V if that makes a difference.

I was going to buy the transformer from Inverterdrive supermarket at the same time as ordering an Inverter, they appear to be a competitive price.

Kind Regards

Dan

Hi,

I thought it might be useful to others if I updated this thread with details of my collet purchase.

I bought one of the sets from arceurotrade and have no regrets at all. They are a big improvement on my original ebay set and after running the dti on the first few uses I haven't felt the need to check run-out any further.

I have more error in the collet chuck than I do in the collets and with care if I mount the chuck in the best position the collets that I have checked have been in the region of 0.005mm to 0.01mm concentricity when measured around 10mm from the face. Good enough for me!

Hope that helps others who may be looking at similar choices and thank you for the advice received in this thread.

Dan

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your feedback, reassuring to hear from someone with experience of this design. Did you take any photos as you went through the project? What lathe do you have your tool post installed on?

Dan

Evening,

I'm planning to make a quick change tool post following Harold Hall's design for use on my Warco GH600. I started off by re-modelling the design slightly larger than the original as I thought that would be sensible considering that the GH600 is just a little bigger than a Myford 7. I increased the base block from 50mm square to 75mm square and then made other appropriate changes.

I am at the point of ordering some material and just started to doubt if the scaling up was necessary for my lathe? The GH600 is not all that much bigger than a Myford 7 but a little more powerful.

Am I doing the right thing or just making the job harder and more expensive?

Thanks

Dan

The Warco oil is most likely to be an ISO32 or an ISO68 industrial gear oil.

I would say that the lead screw gearbox may engage gear slightly better with the ISO68 oil as one of the shafts is free to spin when the gears are in between engagement - this can make its slightly more tricky to get it engaged as when you turn the chuck to giggle things about the free shaft turns with it just from the side force friction between the gears and the teeth stay miss-aligned. A little extra drag from oil would do no harm at improving this. I probably haven't described that well and I'm not suggesting any fault with the way it is - a little bit of a experience and you get the hang of changing the gears.

The main gearbox on my machine seems to drag a little when cold if you use the high speeds (1500/2000). Be interesting how it run with ISO32.

Grizzly do spec oil in their manuals and recommend ISO32 in the main gearbox and ISO68 in the lead screw gearbox on their smaller GH machines.

Any recommendation for lead screw lubrication? I have thoroughly cleaned mine and from the factory it was well plastered in red grease around the half nut area. Is red grease a good lubrication for the half nut and worm gear?

I would normally have chosen on oil for the lead screw but i am a little unsure with the worm gear.

Dan

Warco sent me some of their oil when i got the machine so that is what i have used. No idea what grade it is as there are no details on the tin.

I do really like my GH600 and consider the oil leak a minor issue. I am going to tackle it as Tboy has written a simple guide and offered to help me out with the fix that he has already developed so it makes sense to me to do it.

I think most machine tools with oil filled gearboxes leak to some degree and i don't expect it to be perfect.

I haven't done all that much work on my GH600 yet but so far i'm happy - once i get over a couple of small issues i reckon its going to be a really good asset in my workshop.

Dan

Thanks chaps - lots of good information!

I was ready to place an order with arc for some other bits so i will tag on a couple of imperial collet sizes to mount some imperial cutters i have - if they shape up well than job sorted.

Cheers

Dan

Some good points made and i will take on board what has been said.

My original set are not worth messing about with - 0.13mm is a big error to work with and really defeats most of the point of using a collet.

I could narrow down what i need a little more though:

• Ideally i would like collets that give me a total run-out of less than 0.03mm on my machine.
• I don't want to waste money buying collets that will disappoint me.

I do like arceurotrade as a trader and have so far been happy with the tools i have bought. If the consensus is that the set arc sell would tick my boxes then i will listen to the advice and go with them.

Dan

Thanks for all of the responses - i will try and go through the points raised:

First question with ER collets is always are you fitting them properly by snapping them into the eccentric ring in the nut before fitting into the holder? – Yes I am definitely snapping them into the nut. This is another issue actually, some collets slip in easy, others are really difficult.

The second question is are you tightening them up sufficiently and not with a cheap hook wrench as is often supplied in a kit? – I wouldn’t like to tighten them any more than I am and I do have a good spanner with multi points.

Third question is are they free of burrs and debris in the gaps, if not then deburr them. – I picked one bad one that I needed for a job, deburred and cleaned it with absolutely no improvement. 0.13 is quite a lot of improvement to find.

I guess I could just dive in and ask questions about how you are measuring your run-out and suggest possible ways to counter it. But to summarise, your chuck has 0.4 thou run out and your (worst) collet has just over 5 thou - but what is the best one like? Would it be worth just buying replacements for the really bad ones or simply sending the bad ones back and asking for replacements (or a refund)? I measure run-out with a 0.01mm Mitutoyo finger clock mounted off the bed way on a mag stand. I have had these collets since last year and the eBay listing made no mention of accuracy – no chance of return now. Some are OK but not many.

Can I also ask a [probably stupid] question? What accuracy do you actually need? What do you plan to use them for? If you managed to get a collet with (say) a one thou (or less) run out, would that be good enough for the work you do? – I only use them on my lathe at the moment but plan on getting a Mill next year. What I have now isn’t good enough, at 0.13mm an endmill doesn’t sound good when cutting and I might as well hold my work in a 3 jaw. My feeling is ‘buy cheap, buy twice’. I don’t want to make that thrice!

I had really been looking for advice on where I could buy a good quality set from a decent manufacturer for around £250. I hadn’t spotted that D&J sell the Fahrion collets and so far I think this is now my favourite option. I will contact them for a price. I also found engineering supplies sell Fahrion collets individually at reasonable price, it would cost £233 for a set of 18. I would have been interested in Rego fix but haven’t found a UK supplier.

Thanks for the advice given.

Dan

Hi,

I would like to buy a new set of ER32 collets but i am struggling to find just what i'm looking for. I know this is quite a regular topic but i'm really looking for information about what is available on the market now.

I will initially be using them on a lathe but plan to expand my workshop with a milling machine in around 12 months time. I already own a Chinese set bought from eBay and have been quite unlucky in that the quality is terrible - some collets have as much as 0.13mm runout.

I use a bolt on chuck bought from arceurotrade, it has 0.01mm runout in the taper.

I'm inclined to go for a precision set because apart from price i can see no other downsides and i may be tempted to buy a better chuck or maybe a taper chuck option in the future.

I like to buy tools of good brand name but haven't found much on offer in the UK when searching for collets - i suspect most on the market are Chinese sets of varying quality. I accept that these can still be very good but it doesn't give me the same confidence as a good brand name.

These are the options i have looked at so far:

Cutwel 0.01mm unbranded set - Good price and accuracy given in spec. (£86)

Cutwel 0.005mm unbranded precision set - A lot more expensive and non branded (£334)

arceurotrade - Price is OK and decent retailer but no accuracy given in spec (£97.75)

Vertex Standard Set - £209 for a standard precision set

Vertex precision set - £252 - i think i would pay the extra for precision if i went with Vertex, are they a decent make though?

Zoro Indexa set - £145 - no details of accuracy in the spec. Who are Indexa, i cannot find information on the internet?

Gloster Tooling Precision set - £160 for a precision set - this company seem to have decent feedback around this forum. Another unbranded set though but good price.

And that's about all i could find that was of interest. D&J workholding have sets that would be of interest but don't advertise prices.

Are there any other decent retailers that i missed? I think Gloster tooling are favorite so far but I am tempted to the Vertex precision set.

Any other suggestions to consider would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Quick update on my investigation so far.

I removed the saddle and apron to check for any bent, damaged or just badly fitted parts -all appeared OK.

After giving all the parts a clean i have then started to rebuild and check the fit of parts along the way.

The first issue was leadscrew alignment - it was 0.5mm lower at the tailstock and 0.5mm further out from the bed. With the saddle fitted i found that the height of the screw at the tailstock was correct but the spacing out from the bed was not.

With the saddle at the headstock the screw is very hard to turn and heavily in contact with the guide holes in the saddle. So to rectify this the leadscrew gearbox must be lowered.

So i have dismantled to remove the gearbox and found that its adjustment was restricted to nothing because of one corner clashing with a radius on the bed casting - infact the screws would only just align and were really under pressure to insert. The next stage is to radius the offending edge and hopefully i will be able to lower by the required 0.5mm and stop the leadscrew jamming with the saddle.

I believe because of this miss-alignment the small concentricity errors of the leadscrew have been raising the saddle slightly with each revolution and given the surface finish effect that i have suffered. The saddle is not completely restrained on the front way and largely relies on tool pressure to keep it down on the vee.

One other small point, the key on the feed drive screw was sticking out slightly on the end that would be pulling against the saddle during motion, i think this gave the 'bump' that i noticed as it knocked against a gap in the casting.

When i'm done i will post photos, i'm sure that will explain all.

Oh and TBoy, you are correct it is leaking more from the leadscrew direction control than anywhere else.

And on the point of oil leaks - on several places i have found that small tapped holes are drilled through - remove the screw and oil pisses out! Annoying, i might try and fit some short grub screws to plug these up and save future mess.

Annoying that this needs to be done but good to strip clean and learn the machine. I will feel happy too if it fixes my issue. The only part i haven't opened yet is the main gearbox.

I hope i haven't hyjacked the original thread here too much but its all good info on the GH600. If i get this surface finish sorted then i will be really happy with the machine - its nice to work on and a really good size, very neat.

Dan

Hi TBoy,

I would like to read about the fix you have completed on the feed shaft direction please. I haven't noticed a leak from this point but i guess it stays hidden behind the panel?

How much oil do you fill with? I didn't see any mention in the manual of what the correct level is. The reason i mention is that my apron was only showing maybe 1/4 up the sight glass but when removed it seems to have been well splashed about.

I wonder if we are overfilling the main gearbox and adding to the issue. I filled mine to around the 2/3rds mark. I can notice a significant drag at high spindle speeds with cold oil. The oil obviously splashes well because the level drops right down when running.

My other investigations are ongoing and i will report back when complete. So far though nothing is bent or damaged but maybe room for assembly and line up improvements. Slow progress i'm afraid with limited workshop time.

Dan

Hi Jed,

I studied your photos to get the best idea i could on how the drive works in the apron, it has been useful.

I have tried running it in different ratios to see if it was maybe the gearbox causing the issue but it seems to be the same no matter what.

I have noticed once before that if i run the spindle at a fast speed at the same time as the feed was set high (was drilling a small hole after a threading operation) then i noticed the whole machine vibrate. I assumed at the time that it just wasn't meant to be run like this and made a mental note to slow the feed down after threading even if i don't need to run the saddle under power.

It will be interesting when the apron is off to see if there is a tight spot or a shaft that isn't quite concentric.

Dan

I might have been a bit quick in deciding that the poor surface finish was down to the tools. I have been working on some known EN1A mild steel and had the same problem. High/low spindle and slow/fast feeds makes little difference I'm still left with a visible groove that appears like a fine thread. I have used a indexable tool and a fresh ground HSS tool with the same result.

I also tried with the saddle locked and used the top slide feed, finish was OK like this. So i took a gear out of the drive train and manually moved the saddle for a cut, again the finish was ok.

So now i wonder if the issue is coming from the apron some how. I can feel a very regular 'bump' if i hold the saddle handle while feed is enabled, i would say it follows the revs of the lead screw.

To satisfy my curiosity i think i will start by removing the apron tonight and check if something is binding.

I made a check on the lead screw in its fitted state to be sure it is straight, max deviation was <0.2mm which i would have thought is good.

Any tips on removing the apron?

cheers

Hi TBoy,

I read your post about the saddle fix. Luckily mine doesn't leak here yet but i will refer back to your fix if it does. The spindle is definitely the number 1 oil leak issue.

Have you dismantled your spindle and tried a replacement seal? I assumed it would be a lip seal fitted behind the cover but don't fancy taking it apart to look. Have you approached Warco about it?

Dan

Thank you for your suggestions. I sharpened a hss tool and gave it a try, all was well!

I was given a set of indexable tools ages ago but couldn’t use them on my Myford as the shanks were too big. As soon as I got running with the Warco I changed to these tools so that’s why I have a lack of experience.

The other thing I realised is that I haven’t made the change to metric all that well yet, and the cross-slide vernier shows diameter reduction rather than radius which further screws my brain! Result is superfine cuts.

So is it not possible to take a fine finish cut with an indexable tool?

On to my next problem - oil leak from the spindle. Just looking for opinions really, am I being fussy or is this just too bad. For me the fact that the oil can and does get onto the belts really dictates that I need it fixed. Other than the belts it doesn’t bother me as it drips onto the tray and hasn’t been enough to justify a top up. Thinking negatively though it’s likely to get worse. Haven’t noticed any other leaks but this one is possibly all of the gearbox shafts, quite hard to tell but definitely at least the main spindle.

kind regards

Dan

Edited By Daniel Bird 1 on 05/06/2020 22:08:31

Edited By Daniel Bird 1 on 05/06/2020 22:10:31

The material pictured was brass which seemed to cut OK, lots of fine chips. I also tried a piece of aluminium and got the same results.

The diameter is 10mm. I tested speeds up to 1500RPM and feed up to 0.9mm/rev.

I must say i have very little experience with tip tools so maybe this is some of my problem. The tool is as close to perfect centre.

Is this a less than ideal insert for brass or aluminium?

I will try a HSS tool tonight and also i thought to try a cut with the saddle locked and feed from the top slide - that should eliminate any issues caused by the saddle gib.

I do have some bright mild steel recently bought from macc models so this should also be good for a test.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

Dan

I have been looking through Grizzly lathe manuals seeking better instructions than the Warco manual and came across a cross slide lock screw on a similar looking setup. It is the usual format of gib strip lock screw.

I have had my GH600 two months now and still have a few teething issues to get through as i haven't had much time to fiddle yet.

One problem i have is with surface finish. So far i haven't managed to eliminate the rough finish shown here (its worse than it looks when you run your nail over it and feels like a fine thread):

I have made the following checks:

1. Tool height - tried it bang on centre and 0.4mm below, same outcome
2. Tool overhang - absolute minimum
3. Speed/feed - tested speeds from 500-1500rpm with no improvement, feed rate 0.044mm
4. Cut depth - 0.05mm to 0.2mm, same results.

I'm using an insert tool with a fresh edge, it is a TPMR 110304.

I have reset all of the gib strip, i would say that i have the top slide too tight, the cross slide perfect and maybe an issue with the saddle.

I have set the gib strip at the rear of the saddle and snugged it up quite a bit from the factory setting. I tested with a DTI on the top of the saddle to see if there was any lift and measured 0.01mm. Should i attempt to tighten this gib further?

If i move the DTI and test the saddle at the front i can measure 0.025mm of lift but don't see anyway to adjust this? Here is a diagram, it would be parts 45 and 46 that would need to be adjusted. Is this normal?

My other thought was spindle preload so with a DTI on the top of the register flange and a large drill for leverage I measured 0.01mm of lift. I could equally measure a further 0.01mm in the downwards direction from neutral so i'm not sure if it is deflection rather than bearing clearance. Again does this sound OK or is the movement excessive? I didn't expect any movement so close to the bearing.

Any advice on what to try next or where I'm going wrong would be appreciated.

Incidentally parting off has been a terrible experience so far and i suspect connected to the surface finish issue.

Kind regards

Dan