Member postings for North Western

Gordon

- I could rarely achieve a satisfactory surface finish with a large radius tool in my powered Adept 2. For general surfacing I found a HSS V tool with a radius of about 1 to 1.5mm and very little top rake gave best results on most metals. I also found a carbide V tool would work quite well, even though they are not supposed to like interrupted cuts, though I prefer HSS. In another thread I said that I found a lack of rigidity in this machine, when the ram is close to maximum extension, even with fine cuts, and the gibs properly adjusted. By applying downward hand pressure to the ram this could be corrected. There is also quite a bit of vibration in the powered model, which would not be present in the original hand operated version.

Dave

Hi Paul

Yes, adjusting the traverse slide gib on the powered model is a most frustrating and fiddly process, which might explain why the several I have seen all needed attention. Access on the original hand operated model is much easier, the motorised version just has all these extra bits added on, which naturally results in something of a compromise.

It will probably be easier to at least partly dismantle the drive gear at the rear which will improve access, also the traverse feed screw, so that the body can be moved by hand as adjustments are made. Mine was stripped down so I replaced the much-mangled and too short grubscrews with longer socket head grubscrews, and allocated a shortened ring spanner and allen key to the machine. Subsequent adjustments were quite easy. The ram gib also received new socket grubscrews.

Your machine has a few interesting modifications - the downfeed handle I personally think is an improvement on the original wheel, and it looks as if there is a graduated collar? If not, I can recommend this as a most useful addition. I made a new larger wheel with a graduated collar for mine, which was transferred to a friend’s machine when mine was sold. The traverse mechanism drive arm looks to be a substantial replacement, I wonder what happened to the original.

The replacement traverse wheel is big enough to get a proper grip with oily fingers for hand feed, and the auto feed ratchet drum looks to have a friction spring added - when worn the ratchet mechanism can be hit and miss, which can alter the surface finish by varying the traverse feed rate. Mine was friction loaded with a rubber band cut from an inner tube…

Two other alterations worth considering are a dowel to hold the vertical feed gib in place, and either a lock screw with short lever, or one longer gib screw, which can be tightened to hold the down feed slide in position, as it can “creep” during use, which does not improve finish, work piece, tool or temper.

Dave

Hi Paul

- if the Hoover motor is 0.25hp, 1425rpm, painted blue, as well as the shaper, then this sounds like the machine I sold through a Tyneside machine tool dealer earlier in 2012. If so, you can send me a PM or use this thread and I will try to help.

Dave

Michael

- ready mix French polish will work well, though the bottle caps can be a nuisance, as they all seem to be the childproof variety. It is readily available in hardware stores, and you may find a choice of colour tint available.

- Raw linseed oil is much slower drying than boiled, which is processed and has driers added. I was taught that Raw should be used for outdoor applications, such as garden tools, structures, etc., with Boiled used for fine wooden furniture, tool handles, gun stocks etc. Raw seems to develop a deeper amber colour over time. In practice, I have used both for everything, including wiping over the bare steel parts of garden tools, and did not note any adverse effects. A true woodworker will probably disagree with me!

- Python file handles seem to be still readily available from various tool dealers, and last forever. I prefer the bare wood which soon acquires a dark workshop patina as the grime is transferred from hand to tool. When making my own handles I have found beech very reliable, easy to turn and readily available from old furniture. Years ago I was given some Boxwood which I used for small handles, wonderful stuff, but may not be an economical choice now. Ferrules from copper , brass, steel tube, I used to collect any odd ends just for this purpose.

Dave

I would also be extremely interested to know if anyone has done this.

These are my reasons for not doing it!

I looked into this possibility in 2010, when in China. I speak some Mandarin, and have Chinese friends, including an engineer and a production manager, who wanted to assist me, but both thought it was not worthwhile, even though they could certainly negotiate a good discount with suppliers, something which would be difficult or impossible for someone not on site. Neither of them recommended an individual dealing with suppliers for a one-off valuable purchase unless one could inspect the goods.

We discussed sourcing the equipment, negotiating with the supplier, price, inspection, and payment. Export documentation and shipping/insurance etc could be arranged through the supplier or a shipping agent, similarly the UK import documentation/duty arrangements. Some shipping companies/ agents offer a complete package, door-to-door, though costs can be high.

Whilst it was theoretically possible to save a small amount of money over UK prices, we could find no advantage over purchasing from a reputable company such as ARC. who offer a guarantee, after sales service, spares and technical advice (in English). There are no hidden costs, no nasty surprises, and the price you see is what you pay - the supplier has done all the hard work and taken the risk. (See the postings re. the storm-related delay to ARC’s recent shipment)

I realise that things may have changed since 2010, and that reputable companies may be offering export deals direct from China, probaby through the internet, but personally I see no need to change our original assessment.

As an afterthought - when dealing directly with a foreign supplier for a small order (“small” to the supplier, not the purchaser) the effects of currency exchange rates can be like a game of snakes and ladders, unless agreed in advance with all parties. Am currently in SE Asia, where earlier this year because of currency fluctuations my car cost me 9% more than if I had waited another 6 weeks… next year it may look like the bargain of the decade, but if so, everything else will be more expensive…such is life.

(No connection with ARC, just very satisfied customer)

Dave

Hi Patch

Full details of an excellent 4 way indexable tool post are in George Thomas “Model engineers workshop manual”, I believe he gives details for both the ML7 and S7, though I am unable to check my copy. Perhaps someone else can confirm this.
I modified his design and built several of these tool posts to fit non-Myford lathes, including a simplified non-indexing version, and as with all his designs, with careful work you end up with a quality product.

Dave

About 15 years ago I enquired with the original UK agents to see if they still had any spares for my very reliable, but rather tired, wartime Tauco bench drill . Amazingly they had but unfortunately not the specific part which interested me. The gentleman I spoke was most apologetic, but said that there were certainly tons of spares and many new machines at the bottom of the Atlantic, along with the ships which had been carrying them from the US to the UK…

Dave

John - looks like a nicely sized machine for model engineering. I have just found these items which may be useful starting points for ideas on mechanical auto lifting of shaper tools, which might interest someone who decides to build the machine, or add to an existing shaper.

Michael - unfortunately I don’t think they will be applicable in your quest, but may be interesting nevertheless.

(Note that “Patent” language, US or British, is drafted in a rather unusual style)

**LINK**

**LINK**

Dave

I think Ian makes some interesting points regarding hand power for certain types of work.
For a number of delicate jobs using my motorised Adept 2, I slackened the belt and used a handle attached to the drive pulley. This was slow compared with direct hand lever drive, but did give excellent control, and was worth the effort. The cuts were very fine and some of the tools very small, but there were no breakages and no foul-ups. Because of the mass I was moving through rotary action, I was tempted to strip off the motorised components as an experiment just to compare the sensitivity and feedback of hand operation with a lever, but never found the time unfortunately. However, my handle also enabled work to continue through some particularly long power cuts!

Dave

Have been following this thread with interest - I had a motorised Adept No.2 shaper for about 20 years. Apparently not many were produced. It required quite a lot of work to bring it back to something like it’s original condition as previous owners had abused it., probably through not understanding it properly.

Very quiet in use, tool grinding very easy, using standard HSS blanks, and the ability to create “specials“ was handy. Probably saved me quite a lot of worn milling cutters over the years. Provided hours of amusement for the cat, who was fascinated by the chips flying through the air. A sheet metal tray was eventually fitted, which spoiled her fun.

Despite it‘s substantial construction, I felt that rigidity was a problem, and on longer strokes there was a tendency for the ram to lift slightly towards the end of the stroke, despite properly adjusted slides. This lift could be corrected by slight downward pressure on the ram. This might not be as apparent with the hand operated model, and most certainly not on larger industrial machines such as Boxford.

Adjusting the length of stroke and the start/finish points was quite a fiddle sometimes, and the auto cross feed needed careful adjustment and observation.

The occasional “dig in” of the tool could ruin a work piece and snap the tool, though generally belt slip saved the tool but not always the work piece.

An excellent surface finish was possible, with fine feed and really sharp, correctly ground and positioned tools, but could be very slow… a reasonable machine for sedate work progress.

The short series by John Olsen in ME in 2005 on cutting curves and cutting between centres on the shaping machine would be of interest I am sure. I recollect that the writer produced sets of expansion links, shaping both the external and internal profiles.

A very small hand shaper such as that envisaged by the OP would have been a great asset when I was making 0 and 1 gauge models 30+ years ago, and I can see the attraction of such a machine. I hope that this project succeeds, as I would be most interested to see the result.

The miller v. shaper discussion in Model Engineering circles has cropped up fairly regularly for at least 25 years in my experience, and no doubt will continue, but such discussion often leads to new useful information from the users of both types of machine. Even if the shaper is considered obsolete in industry, it is apparent that it has a useful life in the amateur area. It is not a substitute for a milling machine, but if one has the space and cash then it can be a useful and interesting additional machine.

As a final comment, my late father, a professional engineer, talking about his RAF service in North Africa during WW2, explained that the destruction of his mobile workshops in an air raid was not the disaster it seemed, as “we were re-equipped PDQ with decent modern American machine tools and reliable generators, no more “new” lathes of antiquated design, and no b***** hand shapers ”

Dave