Smart and Brown Sabel

Lots of progress since getting the Southbend service kit.
worked until 3am this morning putting the gearbox and carriage back together and this is the result after a couple of hours tonight.

it’s really coming together now and I’m loving the colour.
The felts are a bit of a ba****d to install but all done (hence 3am). Only the headstock to rebuild and she’ll be ready to rock and roll.

Looks well next to this weeks new addition to the shop....

When you fit the front and rear main bearings, there should be small pins to locate them and stop them from rotating. And to adjust them, the only way to be sure is with plenty of oil and run the machine at top speed to feel the temperature rise in the headstock casting where the bearings fit. You should start off so that there is about 0.001" movement when you lift each end in turn. Then very slowly tighten the bearings, and test the temperature. The temperature to aim for is just luke warm after 15-20 minutes running. Once the bearings have been adjusted, there should be no reason to touch them. The spindle can be removed without disturbing them. The museum's model A has been happy with semi synthetic 5W30 for years now, it gets oiled every day it is used.

When you fit the front and rear main bearings, there should be small pins to locate them and stop them from rotating. And to adjust them, the only way to be sure is with plenty of oil and run the machine at top speed to feel the temperature rise in the headstock casting where the bearings fit. You should start off so that there is about 0.001" movement when you lift each end in turn. Then very slowly tighten the bearings, and test the temperature. The temperature to aim for is just luke warm after 15-20 minutes running. Once the bearings have been adjusted, there should be no reason to touch them. The spindle can be removed without disturbing them. The museum's model A has been happy with semi synthetic 5W30 for years now, it gets oiled every day it is used.

Hi Old Mart,
Thanks for the tip. I'm a little confuséd by this as my main shaft has machine cast iron bearings, and so the info about pins doesnt seem to apply.

Ive been fettling with the oiling wicks this morning, Hopefully I'll be able to fit the spindle etc this evening or tomorrow.

Jim

Sorry,I thought that the bearings were similar to the model A ones. Are yours in halves with shimmed caps holding them?

Old Mart,

They are close down cast iron bearings, not lift off caps. It is though possible to set them very finely.

Jim

The oiling wicks can be held down with needles through the drain holes at the bottom of the bearings; it makes the job of inserting the spindle possible without trapping them as you slide it in from the front. It is still a fiddle to get it home successfully.

Regards Brian

So I’ve pretty much assembled the head stock.
Belts, covers, back gear, reversing tumbler, everything.
Turns out you cannot insert the bull gear locking pin into the gear face with the spindle in place.
Bah!

Nice to know that the bearings can be fine tuned. My comments on the general setting up still stand, its best to start very slightly slack, which was why I mentioned 0.001" movement, you should be able to get it a bit tighter than that before things start to heat up. The spindle should be easy to turn by hand using the chuck. I overdid the model A front bearing, it was getting hot after about 5 minutes. The bearings in that are bronze and tapered on the OD with nuts either side to adjust them. I havn't needed to touch them in the last couple of years. Now I know how, I can remove the spindle in ten minutes.

Edited By old mart on 03/07/2020 21:31:58

It’s fully assembled at last.
Still got to set bearing clearances (thanks for the suggestions Old Mart) and put the gearbox plate on. But mostly it’s finished.
found out the hard way that the bull gear pin cannot be inserted once the spindle is in place. Still, I got some practice putting the spindle in and out.
What do you think?

I think you should ditch the milling attachment, you have a proper mill sitting next to the lathe.

Haha. Good spot. I got the vertical slide before the mill. I’ll keep it for now

Hi everyone really interested in this thtead as i have just bought this model !! quick question , what threads are used in the construction of the lathe , i want to clean out all the screw holes but do not have any imperial taps and dies yet, I assume the smaller threads are BA ?

Alan

I would expect 55° Whitworth threads for the majority. At a push 60° UNC may fit in worn holes where the diameter and TPI is the same. I don't know about anything smaller.

Martin C

Thanks for the info !! now i have a place to start

The model A has BSF threads rather than Whitworth and also BA in the smaller sizes. The spindle threads are 55 degrees.

i have the sabel exactly the same as jim's, so is that classed as the model A.

sorry for the dumb questions

No the model A is a bigger machine than the Sabel. Look at the "lathes UK" website.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/smartbrown/index.html

Edited By old mart on 11/03/2021 17:41:26

Alan Hands

Not a dumb question at all, the Model A was a different machine altogether, but it was made by Smart and Brown

Regards Brian

As the Sabel is basically an improved, better built clone of the SouthBend 9" its easy to get a bit muddled up with model designations.

South Bends came in three versions model A with threading gearbox and power feeds, model B with power feeds change wheels for threading and model C with only plain hand feed and change wheels. Boxford were also clones and used the same model A-B-C identification system.

The Smart & Brown equivalents are SABEL with threading gearbox and power feeds, SAB with power feeds and change wheels for threading and S with only plain hand feed and change wheels.

So its an easy, and understandable, mistake to think Sable model A rather than the correct SABEL.

Which matters only because, as Old Mart says the Smart & Brown model A is very different being a true toolroom lathe and a much heftier beast. Although of similar capacity.

Clive

Thanks for all the info, very interesting. so back to my original query threads are bsw ???