Member postings for lfoggy

Yes, I ground the ends of the tungsten carbide pivots to a conical point then used 'endstones', also made of tungsten carbide, to limit movement. This prevents the shoulders of the arbours rubbing against the clock plates.

Many thanks to all for the replies. For my current project I have decided on trying EN24 steel for the pinions. Pivots will run in micro ball bearings and the pallet faces on the escapement will be tungsten carbide.

Will post pictures when the clock is done, hopefully by Christmas time....

Regards

Lukas

I have now switched from pivots to small ball races, which work amazingly well and result in very low friction movements. When I was still using pivots, I used polished tungsten carbide pins glued into the ends of the arbors with anaerobic adhesive. These seem to wear really well. I recently dismantled the first clock I made with tungsten carbide pivots (made in 1997) and there was no discernible wear on the pivots at all. Having said that, 25 years is not long in horology....

Many thanks to all.

I have just ordered 1m of 10mm diameter EN24T round bar to play with. The Malcolm Wild book suggests that you don't harden pinions cut from EN24 any further once you have machined them. You are saying you can harden the steel further but I do not have accurate enough heating equipment in my shop to do that and the melted salt sounds too scary for me !

Edited By lfoggy on 06/06/2022 14:34:28

Edited By lfoggy on 06/06/2022 14:36:47

Update. The hardened EN8 pinions are so brittle you can snap the pinion leaves with your fingernail. After tempering they are still too brittle. This is not going to be viable in a home shop I think.

Searching the horology forums as well as this forum, there are quite a few threads on whether to bother hardening clock pinions, which include contributions from some eminent horologists. There is no real consensus and clearly there are plenty of constructors and restorers who do not harden.

Executive decision: EN8 left untreated. I will report back in 100 years or so whether this was the right choice.

Very useful, thank you. I agree this implies that tempering is not going to have any effect. I am thinking to either use EN8 and leave unhardened or go back to silver steel.

Amazing work on that pinion. Presumably you can programme your milling machine to generate any tooth form you like?

Hi,

Is that a confidently known fact ? Seems to be some debate about this in the horology world but it does seem likley.

Have just been playing around hardening EN8 pinions by heating to red heat, holding there for 60s then quenching in water. They are definitely hard according to the file test. Who knows how hard though, and the effect of tempering is even harder to measure in a home shop...

Ive just tried that and a file skates over the EN8 just like it would over similarly treated silver steel suggesting it has hardened. Will it soften by tempering according to colour, like silver steel?

I am about to start making some pinions for my current clock project and have both silver steel and EN8 steel available. I have previously always used silver steel but note that Malcolm Wild, in his book 'Wheel and Pinion Cutting in Horology' advocates EN8 steel for its free cutting properties. He states that hardening can only be achieved by 'flame or induction hardening methods' which are outside the scope of a home workshop. Malcolm also implies that hardening is not necessary and EN8 pinions can be left unhardened. Elsewhere I have read that you can harden and temper EN8 like silver steel but I'm not sure what can be reliably achieved in an amateur workshop. There is also debate about whether hardening a clock pinion actually makes it last longer. I have now cut some trial pinions in EN8 and the finish is excellent with almost no polishing necessary so am tempted to go down this route.

Any advice on the practicality or value of hardning pinions in EN8? I could make the pinions seperately and assemble them to the arbor with anaerobic adhesive, a technique which does simplify the hardening process.

Edited By lfoggy on 04/06/2022 20:39:57

Edited By lfoggy on 04/06/2022 20:40:42

This post has been interesting to me as I had been looking for a used Wohlhaupter boring head on eBay and elsewhere for a while. A few were offerred but they did not look good to me. After a year of watching I concluded the option was a new Wohlhaupter for £2k+ or a new Vertex of similar spec for less than half that. In the end I purchased a Vertex boring and facing head from Rotagrip and it is a decent tool. Finish not as good as a new Wohlhaupter but not that much in it. And of course my tool was box fresh, new and shiny and covered by Vertex warranty. Accuracy and ease of use is similar I think. Maybe not as robust in an industrial environment but then I am just a hobbyist....

Edited By lfoggy on 01/06/2022 20:54:27

So sorry to hear about your problem which I hope will be resolved soon.

I registered with ebay when it first started some 25 years ago and have made well over 1200 purchases since then, many of which have been second hand or new workshop related items. I have had some amazing bargains and very few problems. My rules are: 1. Only ever buy items to a value you are prepared to lose and 2. Only buy used items up to around 50% of the equivalent new cost from a reputable dealer and 3. Only buy items that are well described and photographed. I am wary of poor spelling and grammar as well.

The key is to rationally offset the price against the risk and hassle.

Has worked well for me.

Is the 'pendulum' working like a governor? The needle rotates with a constant torque, which drives the suspended bob, which moves outwards, increasing the cirumference of its rotation, until the forces are balanced? Hopefully that point would be associated with the correct rate of the clock. Sounds like there would be a lot of room for error in this arrangement.

Looks amazing but I don't really understand what's going on here. Was the clock running when you saw it?

What speeds and what size drills are you looking for?

I have a modern Amercian made Cameron model 214 drill press with a speed range of 1000 - 30,000 rpm that I use for my clockmaking. Its an excellent machine that easily drills holes down to 0.3mm. Cameron claim you can go smaller than this but have not tested this myself. Not much use for anything above 2mm though.

**LINK**

I bought a Bison 5c chuck with a D1-3 backplate and a set of metric Bison collets. One of the best workshop purchases I have made recently. The chuck is very accurate and holds work with runout of around 0.01mm. It gets more use than anticpiated in my workshop. Highly recommended.

Edited By lfoggy on 17/02/2022 13:55:44

Your cutters look very serviceable and will give consistent tooth geometry. A deviation in tooth thickness of a few hundredths of a mm from perfect is really not an issue. I have now built quite a few clocks and my experience is that they are quite forgiving of tooth geometry. Unless you are building an unusual very low-power or long duration clock it just won’t matter.

To be honest though, I have gotten bored of making cutters myself and just buy them from PP Thornton. They last for ages (for ever if your are an amateur constructor) and can be resharpened easily. You can then get on with the task of making the clock...

You can actually pay in a cheque now using your smart phone without leaving home !

Fascinating to watch and a glimpse back in time, both in engineering and in British culture. From a public health perspective it is interesting to note that none of the employees depicted were obese. Would be very different in a British factory now.

Why were so many of the production machines painted that odd gold colour !? Not a colour I would associate with a factory.

Edited By lfoggy on 02/02/2022 17:15:28

Good job.

What's next? An English regulator is a challenge....

Thanks for the helpful comments and pics.

The set did come in a lovely solid harwood box with dovetail joints and a hinged lid with cutouts for the parts, but I am pretty sure this is not a Starrett item. Even for an old Starrett tool, this case would be excessive. I suspect a previous owner was a woodworker and made this himself.

Guess I will just have to be satified with the fact it's 'vintage' of uncertain age....

I recently aquired this Starrett combination set and I am wondering how old it is. It is different in design to the currently available combination set and somehow seems to be quite vintage. The angle gauge part is stamped 'Starrett Athol Mass U.S.A. No 12' and the the number 22 is on the reverse. The ruler is marked No 4 and 'The L.S.S. Co Athol Mass U.S.A.' with the Starrett logo. There are no markings on the other two parts of the set. It is painted in gloss black as opposed to the crinkle black finish on the modern tools.

Is it possible to guestimate the age of this tool?

It is very nicely made and in great condition so I will be using it in the workshop. My question is really just to satisfy my curiosity.