Member postings for julian atkins

I remember my old late friend Albert North giving me a billet of brass to turn up a GWR safety valve casing. At the club meeting a month later I showed the finished product, and described how it was turned then the flare filled to shape. 'Bollocks' said Arthur from the wings! He could not see how anyone could file the correct shape. He would have spent months making special jigs to fly cut the complicated radii!

Cheers,

Julian

Eddie and I have both entered IMLEC. In my case it was probably the most nerve racking thing I've ever done.

In my case in 1995, I produced more work done at the drawbar pulling just 6 passengers plus the heavy dynamoeter car than Alan Crossfield who came 2nd pulling more passengers. However Alan burnt less coal than me. So I came 3rd. However with a lighter load I recorded a higher drawbar reading than did Alan with a heavier load!

I did a great deal of study of IMLEC results pre 1995.

The classic was Jim Ewins with his 9F 'Iron Duke' that pulled a tremendous load but didnt win. Poor old Jim spent many years building special locos to win IMLEC but didnt. Percy Wood built bog standard LBSC designs and won 3 times.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Michael,

That was a bit of a 'cop out' of a reply?

(I think we will pass over John S's contribution above in the interests of good taste and forum rules. I dont really want to know what John at a foreign bar does with 'interesting "delectable" Dr Debs'.

Cheers,

Julian

Fizzy (Nigel) is one of the nicest guys you could ever know in model engineering. We have corresponded for quite a few years.

Lets get down to brass tacks.

Not that I ever exhibit, one of my locos is hypothetically along side another loco in an exhibition. My tender has been cut out by me with a hacksaw from brass sheet and fashioned. The cab is also a steel silver soldered fabrication cut out from steel sheet. All the valve gear and coupling and conn rods are milled in a very antiquated vertical mill and finished with a file. The frames were hacked out of 3mm steel sheet with a hacksaw and file. The boiler is to my own design, in copper, and silver soldered by myself in my workshop with all flanging plates made with my own hand made formers.

Apart from the pressure gauge, all the cab fittings are tailor made and as close to scale as I can make them. I have made my own injectors.

Alongside is a similar loco but with a commercially built boiler bought in, CNC frames, CNC valve gear and coupling rods and conn rods, a Malcolm High brass kit tender and cab, and all commercial cab fittings and commercial injectors.

How do you judge both?

Cheers,

Julian

I am very pleased to here of Ron's progress. He now knows that with a decent proven injector there is nothing now wrong with his check valves or pipework.

Incidentally the injector Ron sent me that arrived in today's post that wouldnt work had a sliver of brass stuck between the two parts of the combining cone. It was still attached to the hole drilled for the internal check valve seat above, so was a defective example, and should never have been sold, though other design aspects of it require rectifying too.

I really do not know how the commercial ME suppliers can peddle such defective and badly made products. In Ron's case he has a commercial injector that had brass stuck in it, a batch of inline check valves that Polly accepted leaked badly and were not fit for purpose, and a set of commercial auto cylinder drain cocks that didnt work. Plus there were issues with leaks on the new commercial boiler.

Ron must have the patience of Job to keep at it, and also must be the unluckiest model engineer with regard to the stuff he has bought from reputable ME suppliers.

I had a big issue with Polly last year when they sold a friend of mine a commercial injector that was incapable of working due to very poor workmanship and design. Polly accepted the injector was faulty, but my friend is still waiting for a refund. Polly then had the cheek to ask if I would make them injectors because of issues with their supplier!

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Colin,

Can I suggest you contact the secretary of the East Grinstead and District MES.

They have a 5"g version of LBSC's 'Dyak' which was built by Dick Simmonds and I believe purchased direct from him.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Nigel,

I have never entered any of my locos in an exhibition, and do not intend to do so.

However the point you raise is highly relevant. The standard ME exhibition judging will cause you to loose points if parts are disclosed to be pre-made/pre-machined.

Some one who has hacksawed out their frames from plate will get more marks than someone who has bought CNC machined frames. The same can be applied to other parts, plus homemade as opposed to commercial fittings.

However someone who has done their own CNC programme or whatever is required might gain as much as someone who has cut them out with a hacksaw and filed them up.

Interesting debate.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Pete,

The point I was trying to make from my own view of these things, and was of the same view of Sam Ell of ex-GWR fame, was that one ought to try and achieve a consistent steaming rate.

This optimises efficiency.

Also on a downward run the loco is still pulling, so negates your perceived problems.

To rush up a gradient overloading the fire, then coast down, is not the best way to run a steam loco whether in fullsize or miniature.

Cheers,

Julian

Well, Ron, that wasnt too bad a day really.

Disappointing that still a few niggles, but you have a perfect injector in the post to try out next time.

The next steam up hopefully will be far more successful for you!

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Pete,

I have made a bit of a study of the UK IMLEC reports, and entered IMLEC once in 1995 coming third.

I suggest 'work done' can only properly be assessed when the loco is pulling. In the UK for the above IMLEC competition, the 'canny' drivers go up the gradients slowly so trying to achieve same steaming rate. There is a speed restriction in the UK IMLEC competitions. You then go downhill still with steam on pulling and registering a drawbar pull up to the maximum of the speed limit.

The 1995 results were published in ME. I came 3rd behind John Heslop and Alan Crossfield, who had both won IMLEC previously.

The drawbar problem is interesting. No slack in the pins, or on loco or tender sprung drawbars or sprung drawhooks.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Steve,

All I can say is when I started this lark at age 16, I joined my local club which was then the IWMES, and I was told not under any circumstances build a 3.5"g 'Tich' by very experienced fellow model engineers. Instead I was told, in fact directed, to build Don Young's 5"g Railmotor design as a first loco.

As I knew the 'words and music ' for 'Tich' almost off by heart, this was an initial disappointment, but I do not regret the sage advice I received all those years ago, and a 5"g Railmotor was started straightaway. It was so easy to fire and drive that my 2 daughters when quite young learnt to drive on it at the club track.

I do not apologise at all for my earlier post that most 3.5"g Tichs remain as ornaments, or not even finished as ebay proves.

LBSC's Juliet is a much better design and better proportioned re the boiler.

Cheers,

Julian

Yes, sincere apologies Kevin, missed the 5"g bit.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Kevin,

Tich is not a club workhorse design. It is unlikely to see much use when completed. Most end up as ornaments on a shelf.

So I would make the cylinders out of brass. I would use cast gunmetal for the pistons and valves, and with soft old fashioned graphite packing and a decent lubricator. The rear axleboxes and conn rod small end bearing will wear out well before any noticeable wear on the cyinder bores or valve faces.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Ron,

I am sorry to hear of further lack of success.

I can send you an injector that I know works perfectly to try out. If it doesnt work on your loco then something else is still wrong elsewhere.

I can also check out for you the injector you have.

I note you appear to have added an inline check valve on the water inlet pipe to the injector. This is unnecessary, and also might be reducing the flow of water to the injector.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi John,

If your pistons were OK while the chassis was being manually revolved, I very much doubt there is problem with the fit in the cylinders when on steam. What packing have you used on the pistons? Flood with lots of proper oil for steam if using on steam, and let everything wear in a bit. Better too good a fit than too sloppy a fit.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Greg,

I am sorry I did not know till earlier today you were trying to steam your loco with briquettes or char and lived 'down under'. I assumed you were in the UK and were firing with decent coal.

County Carlow is a UK design by Don Young with a narrow sloping fire grate. It is ideally suited for burning Welsh steam coal as was fullsize.

The GWR narrow firebox and sloping grate part way is not easy to fire, even with decent coal. My GWR 3.5" King has a similar grate though longer. Only 3 people have ever been entrusted with driving it because it is so tricky to fire, whereas my other locos have been let loose on all and sundry including my 2 daughters when quite young.

Can I suggest you join and start a thread on the modeleng.proboards.com site.

There are lots of builders and operators on this forum who are very active and from 'down under' and are used to the stuff you are trying to burn. I am quite sure thay will have some good suggestions and will be very helpful. One such individual actually imports large quantities of soft Welsh anthracite to New Zealand for miniature use, which has also found it's way to Australia.

I dont have any experience of burning char or briquettes (I have a shed full of Welsh steam coal that will see me out).

You cant see the front half of the grate ie the sloping part. In fullsize with Welsh steam coal you pile the coal up to half way up the firehole door and allow it to slide down to the front plus a few shovel fulls towards the front every now and then. In miniature things are a bit different with the GWR part sloping grate for firing, especially with your large front opening to the ashpan. There is quite a 'knack' to firing these types of grates especially with awkward coal.

My suspicion is that you do not have a proper firebed on the grate when setting off onto the track.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Greg,

Have you checked that you blast pipe is concentric with the petticoat pipe and chimney as previously suggested?

It is possible the blast pipe may have got knocked out of alignment during your flue cleaning.

The snifting valve pipe looks to be in an odd position and impinging on the jet of steam exiting from the blast nozzle, and is covered in oil. The oil on the outside of the petticoat pipe front is also odd.

What coal are you using and where is the bag from?

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 24/08/2016 23:03:28

Hi Greg,

There is nothing inherently wrong with the dimensions and proportions on your drawing. By altering them you will not get any or much of an improvement. Happy to go into further detail if required. There is also a fundamental problem with applying the Greenly rules per se.

Check that the blastpipe is concentric with the petticoat and chimney.

One run with the lubricator not working or empty can be enough to ruin the solid type piston valves/bobbins on the Don Young designs.

If the valve gear beats are ok we can rule out say an eccentric shifting on the axle or some other valve gear mishap.

The pistons and piston valves can easily be tested under steam or air using the well known fullsize procedure set out on p.95 'Handbook for Railway Steam Locomotive Engineman'.

Look inside the smokebox for evidence of leaking steam joints - the ash and grime will be usually scoured away around any such joints.

I would probably then hydraulically test the boiler and superheaters in one go.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Greg,

County Carlow is quite an interesting design by Don Young circa 1969/1970 in ME.

I will dig out the drawings and check them over for you re the draughting, but Don was very careful with the draughting on his designs. I can also see how County Carlow compares with the Jos Koopmans forumulae for you.

If the loco is built to the drawings I suspect that your main problem is potential gaps around the holes in the bottom of the smokebox for the blastpipe and steam pipes, and leaking piston valves.

There really is no need to resort to monometer readings, especially if you do not have a grasp of smokebox draughting principles. Things have moved on quite a bit in the understanding of these things thanks to Jos Koopmans.

Cheers,

Julian

I supplied all the corrections to Malcolm 3 years ago for the Don Young 5"g O2 Fishbourne design, but I would echo Duncan's comments on the Hall simulator. It is always my first starting point these days.

Very easy to use.

You just need to be aware of certain limitations and the automatic equalising of leads which is something neither Don Ashton of myself agree with with Stephensons gear.

Cheers,

Julian