Member postings for Geoff Manship

Hi all,

Problem solved!!!

Warco have been great... on Friday their engineer delivered and fitted a replacement head. He knew his stuff and in a short time the mill was performing the way it should. Everyone that I spoke to at the company was very friendly and helpful.

If anyone has reservations about Warco's after sales service, have no fears, they are good people to deal with.

Thank you Warco.

Regards

Geoff Manship.

Hi David,

Warco phoned this morning to say that realise that much error is not acceptable, they are working on a solution for me and will get back to me soon.

Regards

Geoff Manship

Jason,

Thank you for your posting. The WM-14 is similar to the X3 in as much as the spindle is carried in taper roller bearings that are adjustable. But, on the Warco, the spindle is carried in a conventional quill that raises and lowers independently of the head. The quill runs directly in a bore machined directly in the cast iron head and this is where the play is.

Regards

Geoff Manship

Hi Russ,

Iv'e set that up already. That's what I mean by trammelling.

Regards

Geoff Manship

Thank you all for your swift replies.

I have just sent Warco an email which I shall follow up with a phone call tomorrow.

The machine did come with a test report. The figure quoted for the vertical movement of the spindle is 0.02mm (0.0008" in both directions, but it doesn't make clear if the movement is applied via the quill movement or the head. But either way, I make my error about 19 times their quoted error!

Regards

Geoff Manship

I purchased a WM-14 mill/drill from Warco in March. It took me a while to reorganise my tiny workshop, but I eventually got things organised and started to make a few simple things to get to know the mill.

Some operations didn't go quite according to plan. Accuracy was very difficult to achieve, particularly when trying to drill holes centrally in jobs. My setting up method was to grip the job in the machine vice leaving a short section of jaw showing and clock-up between the two vice jaws to set the mill spindle in the middle of the work. After drilling and reaming the resulting hole I checked that it was central, a discrepancy of about 0.010” was evident.

I re-trammelled the table (with the quill fully raised) and found that everything was fine. I put an angle plate in the table, put a clock in the drill chuck and moved the whole head up and down – that was fine. Then with the clock still in the chuck, I moved the quill up and down the angle plate. Over the full length of the quill travel the clock showed a run out of 0.0” to 0.015” top to bottom. How can this be?

After a couple of days of measuring and adjusting, I have now tracked the problem down to play in the quill of about 0.003”. This doesn't sound much, but when the length of the drill chuck and drill is added it accounts fully for the error. The reason that it doesn't show up when trammelling the table is that when I did this the quill is fully up and the further the quill is lowered so the error increases due to the reduced support it receives from the bore in the head. The quill of the WM-14 has quite a strong return spring so that when fully up the flange at the bottom of the quill is forced against the underside on the head, thus squaring up the spindle and when trammelling the table all appears to be ok.

Sorry for the long rambling explanation - now finally I can get to my questions.

Has anyone else had similar problems and if so, what if anything did they do about it? Is this typical of small mill/drills? Is this all we can expect of Chinese engineering?

I intend to speak to Warco, but wanted to understand the problem first.

Regards

Geoff Manship

Thank you everyone for your comments, everything that was said made a lot of sense. I haven't been able to get into the workshop much lately, but what time I have had has been taken up experimenting with fly cutting for surfacing as suggested by Michael, Alan, John, Martin and Phil. I get a really good finish and the tool seems to last a very long time. End mills now will be used for what they were designed for and not surfacing!

Regards

Geoff.

Andrew,

Perhaps my post was a bit misleading. I've only noticed the corners chipping on steel. The endmills are 4 flute, HSS un-coated and from various manufacturers. Stepovers vary depending on the job but usually the maximum the tool will take.

Regards

Geoff.

Michael,

Thank you for your reply. I did consider fly cutters, but have always thought they are more for light finishing cuts not bulk metal removal?

Regards

Geoff.

I use a Warco WM14 mill/drill for making parts for stationary engine models and small 5in locos. These are usually small mild steel and cast iron parts plus some brass and bronze items. Predictable, when using end mills for surfacing, the corners chip very easily and shorten the tools life. I know Tubal Cain suggests bevelling end mill cutting edges to ease this problem and it does seem to work to a certain extent. But I am wondering if a 16mm Indexable endmill as sold by Chronos would improve the situation for steel and cast iron.

Has anyone any comments regarding these tools and their use with the WM14 (it seems to be quite a rigid machine for its size).

Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards

Geoff.

Peter,

Sorry for the delay.

I carried out some tests on my WM14 to see how hot the motor would run at maximum speed. I'm not sure what value this will be to you as I wasn't actually cutting metal and the motor cover was removed, but you may be able to draw some conclusions.

Start – switched to high speed range and turned the speed control clockwise until it would turn no further. The speed indicator showed 2235 rpm.

After 5 minutes – the motor was only very only barely warm to the touch. Speed had increased to 2271.

After 10 minutes – the motor was still just slightly warm to the touch. Speed had increased to 2301.

After 15 minutes – the motor was pleasantly warm to the touch. Speed now 2319.

After 25 minutes – the motor is warmer, but I could easily bare the back of my hand on the brush end (warmest part) of the motor. Speed now 2355

I ended the test here. There were no nasty smells and I did not get the impression that things were overheating. It seems curious that the speed increased quite the way it did.

I hope this is of some help.

Regards

Geoff.

Peter,

I wonder if it would be useful for you to start a new thread about WM14 overheating on the forum as readers may not notice your problem buried in this one?

I shall try running my machine at full speed for a period on Thursday and let you know what happens.

Thank you for the photo, the vice looks in perfect proportion to the size of the mill.

Regards

Geoff.

Peter,

Thank you for your reply.

I had seen the Soba vices but discounted them as they seemed rather more expensive than the usual run of the mill vices. However, your message sent me back onto the web to investigate them further. The quality and accuracy appear to be pretty good and I like the look of them – so much so that I have just ordered the 75mm size. I found them on Axminster's website for £101.99.

Also in your message, you ask for comments on the WM14 overheating when using the high speed range. Can I ask how this manifests itself, is it the motor getting hot or the electronics? Modern motors do tend to run very hot. I had a Hobbymat lathe that if it had been running for an hour or so, the motor casing got so hot that I couldn't bare my had on it. It was like that from new and I used it for 15 years with no problems.

Regards

Geoff

Geoff,

Thank you for your reply. I may be taking a trip to Warco sson, so it would be good to see a what the DH-6 is like in the flesh as it were.

Paul,

Thank you for your comments on the Arc Euro vices, I was wondering about the mounting provisions, your "dogs" seem to be a good solution.

Regards

Geoff

Hi,

After 20 years model engineering, I have only just managed to make room for and buy a small milling machine. The machine in question is a Warco WM14 mill/drill and I am now trying to decide which machine vice to get. I am considering the Vertex VK-4 offered by Rotagrip and one of the “Precision Tool Vices” advertised by Arc Euro Trade. The Vertex has 4” width and the precision vices range from 25mm to 100mm.

As the table of the WM14 is only 400mm x 120mm, the Vertex seems to be a bit massive for such a small machine.

I would be glad to hear what other WM14 owners are using. Also, from owners of the “Precision Tool Vices”.

Regards Geoff.

Some time ago I brought two engineer's squares. On checking the squareness of each, I found that one was appalling and the other just not very good. I now want to buy a 4” and 6” square of reasonable quality for use in the workshop. I don't think I need inspection standard, just reasonable accuracy and quality.