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Member postings for Ian P

Here is a list of all the postings Ian P has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

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Thread: New Blocks on the Block
17/11/2011 15:36:35
I'm not bothered about the 'advertising' boloney, all that matter to me is that someone brought them to my attention. I had seen them on the ARC website but flicked passed the picture of them and never really studied the details.
 
Now that Bogstandard has pointed out their benefits I shall definately getting some.
 
I think Bogstandard deserves a vote of thanks
 
 
Ian Phillips
Thread: Remote display sources for DRO Chinese calipers
16/11/2011 13:21:36
Posted by Steve Withnell on 16/11/2011 13:01:42:
OK. I've decided to stick with the Warco 1*21Bit kit. I can put basic DRO on the mill for £125, and then a scale for the lathe would be £61 (all inc VAT & P&P) and the display can be shared between the two (I can't mill and turn at the same time!)
 
Looking at the points in the thread above, I will need to think about some form of gaiter. The readout heads do not need to be accessible with the remote plugged in. My initial thought is just to get a couple of kid's baloon's (the long thin ones) and pull them over the whole scale.
 
The precious spare time I have I want to use on the machine, not in my den doing electronics as much as I would like too! Also spending money on full DRO for a £600 mill (new) seems to have the balance of spend wrong!
 
Steve
Steve
 
I think I may go with the same scales with remote readouts, but the Igaging ones look tempting too.
 
You need to think carefully about scale protection, toy balloon rubber these days seems to perish very quickly. I am just going to ensure the scale sits under a length of extrusion, or even fit inside a tube of some sort.
 
Ian Phillips
15/11/2011 21:07:33
Posted by Steve Withnell on 15/11/2011 20:52:41:
Do you think this connector would fit the typical (2*24 bit) chinese scale? If so might be tidier than soldering directly to the scale read head PCB
 
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rj-connectors/4617286/
 
 
Steve

Steve
 
I dont think it will go anywhere near fitting. Partly because it is about 2.5mm pitch whereas the caliper contact fingers are 1mm (at a guess) but also that item needs to be mounted on something that itself fits into the caliper aperture.
 
I understand ready made cable and connectors are available for the calipers but I am not convinced that all calipers have the same connector geometry so getting the right one to suit might be trial and error.
 
Ian Phillips
15/11/2011 20:33:32
Posted by wotsit on 15/11/2011 19:36:09:
Ian,
Don't understand your problems with the YADRO site - it just opened OK for me.
 
 
 
Mr Wotsit (?)
 
My uncertainties about the Yadro was not that actual site but the that on the LS Caine site it states that the boards are no longer available and the designer appears to have gone AWOL. As all the info is still available so I could still make one up with Veroboard.
 
I went through exactly the same woes as you with swarf getting into the caliper scales, it got to the stage that I would strip and clean them several times whilst making just one part. Even if that were acceptable it would be one thing, but I found I was beginning to mistrust the readings. Whatever I fit now I will ensure they are well outside the range of any flying metal particals (brass swarf is like needles and gets everywhere!)
 
Ian Phillips
 
 
15/11/2011 14:27:35
Posted by The Merry Miller on 15/11/2011 13:54:03:
Here they are again.
 
 
 
Len P.
 
 
Len
 
Thanks for that link, the scales look ideal (and good value) their website though is next to useless!
 
Clicking on the 'Details' button takes me away from the product so after trying again on a completely different computer without success, I sent them an email.
 
Ian Phillips
15/11/2011 09:33:18
Ady
 
I have looked at all the previous posts, the one that restarted my interest in fitting DRO was one of your replies where you gave a bunch of links.
 
The Nerdkits one would suit me but the site does not seem to give enough information to complete the project (or maybe it is only applicable with Nerdkits own processor board)
 
 
Ian Phillips
15/11/2011 09:28:03
Posted by dcosta on 14/11/2011 23:29:49:
Hello Ian!
 
When I did my first installation of digital scales in my milling machine, I faced the same problems you are facing now.
And, after some research, I decided to try the "Digital Scales w / Attached Counter" which Warco sells.
See, please,
s.f.f. http://www.warco.co.uk/digital-measuring-equipment/295-digital-scales-wattached-counter.html
The moving part in the scale is a closed box and You can mount the rule with the cable in the position beneath the box.
 
Almost two years have passed and they still work very well.
 
I covered the scales with an angle aluminum profile.
 
Dias Costa
 
Dias
 
I must admit I missed those on my searches. They are certainly good value so will have at look at them in more detail. Thanks
 
Ian
15/11/2011 09:20:47
Posted by Les Jones 1 on 14/11/2011 22:58:09:
Hi Ian,
The original Shumatech DRO350 is still available from "Model Engineers Digital Workshop" . Although Scott claims it is obsolete and parts are difficult to obtain there seems to have been more problems obtaining parts for the DRO550 I have two DRO350's and find they more than meet my needs. The yadro circuit is so simple that I built mine on stripboard. It could be simplified further by leaving out the optical isolator and its associated DC to DC converter.
 
Les.
 
 
Les
It was the fact that Scott regarded it as obsolete that put me off the 350, your experience though will prompt me to investigate again. I only need the bare PCB and programmed ICs as the rest of the components I probably already have. I will look at Yadro again as stripboard construction appeals to me on the grounds of cost.
 
Ian
14/11/2011 22:32:25
I fitted calipers to a small mill a while ago but mounting them in a readable position left them vulnerable to coolant and swarf. A full blown glass scale DRO is outside my budget so I am considering making my own remote readouts to use with hacked calipers placed in a more protected location.
 
There are several commercial/semi-commercial options available but all of them seem to have problems of one sort or another. Yadro seem to have dried up and Shumatech is only available occasionally. Some of the self build and/or kit versions I have found on the web look enticing but do not inspire confidence mainly because of lack of details.
 
I can build the electronics myself and would prefer to have the 2 or 3 displays on one panel but would still be happy with completely independent units. I am not opposed to using an old PC as the display either.
 
Has anyone bought or built anything recently or know of what is currently available?
 
Ian Phillips
 
Thread: AC motor wiring
11/11/2011 19:43:40
A quick search finds lots of Riello wiring diagrams.
 
Without the burner model number I am just groping in the dark but the link below shows a single phase motor wired up.
A few minutes with Google should get you the exact one.
 
A 90 Watt motor may only be 1/8th or 1/10th HP so you will not have a lot of grunt!
 
Ian Phillips
 
11/11/2011 14:36:00
You definitely need some more information before you connect that motor to the mains. There is no particular standard for motor wiring colours but surely the boiler manual (not the 'user guide') will contain enough data to identify what the wires are for, if not then try the motor manufacturer.
 
Since the motor is most likely fairly low power, will the motor be powerfull enough for your grinder?
 
If you post some pictures, I'm sure someone here will be able to help.
 
Ian Phillips
Thread: Using old washing machine motors
25/09/2011 12:07:40
Les
 
Thanks for the offer of your software. It sounds like you have spent some time and effort into making a proper job of it (with serial interface etc) and certainly if I build my own controller I would appreciate using your cicuit and code. I know of a couple of people that use PICs so can borrow a programmer etc.
 
Michael
 
By low speed I meant low in relation to the top speed of the motor, I would reduce the speed with belt and pulleys by about 4:1 and hope the speed controller will do the rest so that it will produce enough torque at say 300-400RPM.
 
Ian P
 
 
24/09/2011 10:07:11
Les
 
If you look at the components on the board that are surrounding the 20 pin IC you should be able to determine whether they are part of analogue or microprocessor circuit topology, athough I do think its more likely to be an ASIC or microprocessor (which will probably have a resonator or even a crystal) Even if you found the data sheet it probably would not help much.
 
I too had thought wiring the motor in shunt configuration, using DC for the field winding. I think it would give better torque and work better at low RPM.
 
 
Ian P
Thread: Acceptable runout on mill
24/09/2011 08:51:33
Posted by nic on 24/09/2011 07:29:31:
Okay, Update.
 
Firstly replacing the bearings is't going to happen, as simplybearings.com want £600 each!
 
Anyhow now i have the spindle out I have been able to have a good look at the morse taper and there is what looks to be like some very bad corrosion, so i would like to get it re-ground, just the morse taper thats is, assuming the spindle isn't bent,
 
Can anyone recommend a company that would take up this small job?
 
Thanks
 
Nic
I found a company in the midlands ('Spindle Services' I think) that gave me a quote for regrinding the taper on my mill (Morse 2). From memory, they had a standard charge of £165 + VAT so its cheaper than your new bearings but not exactly a bargain.
 
I eventually did it myself using a toolpost grider on the lathe. Actually I used a homemade 'Dremel' type tool mounted on the lathe toolpost. It was made from a 'Foredom' type handpiece and a 12V motor. The ballrace handpiece accepts collets and mine came from Gloster tooling.
 
In your case I would mount either the complete mill head, or maybe just the quill assembly in the lathe in such a way that the spindle being ground runs in its own bearings but rotated by the lathe. You could jury rig the quill in a fixed steady (or two ideally) and use a bit of rubber hose as a flexible couplling.
 
If your top slide does not have sufficient travel to cover MT2 one idea might be to mount the quill at an angle to the lathe bed axis and use the leadscrew for feeding. I would get the correct angle by very careful trial and error. Take very light cuts when grinding and use very slow feed, it pays to let the wheel to metal contact 'spark-out' by traversing at the same settings until you are well and truely fed up!
 
 
 
Thread: Using old washing machine motors
23/09/2011 20:15:20
Posted by Les Jones 1 on 23/09/2011 18:17:44:
Hi Ian,
You could look on the internet to see if you can find the data sheet on the IC used in the original controller. If you can find the data on the IC it should be possible to work out the connections. I have two of these motors and controllers but I could not find a data sheet for the IC. I hope you have more luck with yours.
Les.
 
Les
 
The only IC in the one I have is a programmed 28pin microcontroller a 47C241 and marked 'Byduni 45DF' as is the PCB. Life would be much easier if Bosch had used a standard motor control IC!
 
The module label on mine shows,
 
Copreci
Code 361-076
230V 50/60Hz etc
 
Googling Copreci and Byduni finds several hits mostly on forums where people are asking component values to try and repair burnt out resistors! Unfortunately whilst I can find pictures of identical boards no hits have any wiring diagrams.
 
Are the ICs in your controllers standard ICs or are they custom programmed devices like on mine?
 
Ian P
 
 
23/09/2011 14:57:01
I have not responded to theis thread since I started it as I have been away but what I did not say originally is that the washing machine was quite old when I disposed of it although it had hardly ever been used. It had a variable (spin?) speed control potentiometer on the front panel so I carefully kept all the wiring intact and left it all connected to the various items and dropped it into a large cardboard box.
 
When I decided to use the motor recently I took it all out of the box and without thinking, unplugged all the bits but stupidly did not make a diagram! Some connections are correct (multipin plugs etc) but the speed control PCB has a row of terminals that are unidentified. The controller module is of Italian manufacture but I have been unable to find any details online. There are similar motors/controllers shown in several YouTube clips but not enough details given to safely wire this one up. I could make a totally new controller from scratch but if I could get the original to work it would save a lot of messing about.
 
Because the motor is well made, a decent size and has tacho feedback I was hoping that it would have reasonable torque at lowish revs but in spite of me having quite a good electronic knowledge I have not been able to run it to test.
 
Ian P
 
 
Thread: Oil grooves in piston valves
16/09/2011 21:09:53
I dont know much about steam engines but the groove proportions dont seem ideal to retain oil. If they do retain oil (by capillary action?) then surely the oil will stay at the deepest part of the groove?
 
As someone previously, suggested shallow 'V' grooves would seem more appropriate.
 
If the grooves have to conform to the drawing then machining them with a parting tool type blade is possible after a little trial and error to find the best combination of speed and feed. A slitting saw on a rigidly mounted (slow RPM) toolpost grinder would certainly work too.
 
Ian P
Thread: Benches
08/09/2011 22:38:47
Posted by david lockwood on 08/09/2011 20:50:18:
hello all, I am about to start making my workshop benches as I had to take the others down, so I am wondering which material would be best for my mill bench and an assembly bench.
 
I am convinced that wood is better for a manual work bench as the steel one I made vibrates horribly when I saw something in the vice.
 
I would very much like to be able to get the mill bench and assembly bench very level or at least get the mill level on jacking screws, so I can try using my precision level to set jobs up. this may seem a redundant point but on past experience the bench has to be very rigid or the machine moves in and out of level when moving other things around the bench or leaning on it et cetera, also I wonder if a wooden bench will warp and twist as the moisture levels change
 
as an extra point i will need to have shelves under the benches but these could be on a separate frame so as to keep weight changes off the bench when loading and unloading the shelves
 
if any one has any thoughts on the mater or any bench making tips these would be very much appreciated
 
thanks in advance David
 
David
 
Wood construction is preferable in my mind. If the bench and top are reasonably solid and all its feet are packed so that they are doing their fair share of supporting the load, then regardless of wherever you place heavy item they should not affect the levelness? of the top surface.
 
The above assumes that the floor is solid! Walking round a room with a normal suspended wooden floor after placing an engineers level on a central table will show just how flexible 8x2 joists are.
 
Ian P
Thread: DRO Scales - BW Electronics
08/09/2011 15:06:37
Surely the best people to put your question to would be BW themselves!
 
Like you, I never really thought highly of the encoder drive method but it would be better to fit it and make use of it, rather than just leave it all in the box.
 
I think it is highly likely that other encoders could be interfaced to the display but its probably not an ideal system and the BW display may not have enough resolution to do justice to better scales.
 
Ian P
Thread: Acceptable runout on mill
08/09/2011 12:23:32
Posted by nic on 08/09/2011 08:16:25:
Hi Steve, thanks for your advice,
 
I have tightened up that ring at the top end and it makes no difference, to the point where the spindle is quite hard to turn by hand, still the same runout,
 
With a gauge on the bed as you said, with a tug on the cutter i'm getting about 4 thou of movement!
It has a tapered roller bearing on the bottom, and have read that it also has one on the top but what i can see is that the spindle passes through a 2inch long rotating cylinder,
 
Also when i did some test cutting on a piece of Aluminium i was getting a beautiful finish on the top, however on a side cut it looked like someone had attacked it with a chisel, now i know that my gibs aren't set up properly yet but they are pretty good, would this terrible finish be as a result of the bearings being out of shot,
 
Thanks,
Nic
 
There are several factors here which do not seem to clarify the problem.
 
Without doubt, the first thing that you need to establish first is whether the female morse taper of the spindle is running true ie concentric with the spindle. Check the large diameter end with a dial indicator first. If you have a finger type indicator that will also allow you to check further into the bore too.
 
If you do this with the bearing adjusted tight as you described it will eliminate any confusing readings that you get by tugging or pushing the spindle as depending on where you mount the dial indicator you could see big changes of readings just from flexing of the machine structure.
 
What is the 'rotating cylinder' you mention? not that is sounds responsible for the 0.004" measurement. Is that value eccentricity we are talking about or is it play (side to side movement) with the spindle not rotating?
 
I recently discovered that a high quality (Schaublin) MT2 to ER25 adapter I had, exhibited more than 0.001" run-out, that's probably 10 time worse than I would have expected so the moral is dont take anything for granted.
 
Ian P
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