Member postings for Ketan Swali

Yes Bill, I am aware of this. I believe that Michael G brought up this issue with the government link back in mid October, on this thread.

As I understand it, EU will have the same policy from 1st July 2021, where exporters to EU will have to have some kind of EU VAT registration for exports from UK to EU from 1st July 2021. I guess the details will get clearer in the coming months.

Ketan at ARC

Yes Ignatz, I understand. Depending on which courier is used, they can call it import entry charge, administration charge, or even an inspection charge for anything which enters into the EU from outside.

In my opening post, I mentioned that the couriers we use 'will charge the importer between £11.50 to £13.00 to make an import entry in the country of destination.'

Whilst in your case the courier may have stated 'inspection charge', what they really mean is an admin fee of some kind. It is rare to be charged an actual 'inspection fee' - which is a thing, which someone may charge for physical inspection of goods - by customs - depending on 'which customs route' your consignment goes through. As far as I can recall, Customs route 1 is for documentary check, route 2 for physical examination of goods by customs, route 3 is for consignment to go through without any checks. Usually, this is a random process.

I also understand that the import administration/entry charge can potentially make the difference in one's decision to purchase from a supplier in the UK or a supplier on the continent.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 10/12/2020 20:50:19

To the best of my knowledge, the import duty % will be based on country of origin (i.e. manufacture) of goods. Not sure at present, but unless EU decides to take the U.S. tarriff route/action against China, it could be less than or around 2%, rather than 10%. Also, to re-confirm, the duty element will only apply to goods value (inc. carriage) over 150 euros.

Ketan at ARC

You are probably right Sam. Where there is a will, there is a way.

At present I am content with my lot. Lets see how things develop over time.

Ketan at ARC

Hi Martin,

It is a case of swings and roundabouts. Examples:

• When ARC started in this line of business, 98% of its revenue came from hobby customers. Today about 50% of ARCs custom comes from business customers, who are Western manufacturers - small, medium and large. Whilst orders from hobby customers go up and down, orders from business customers continue to grow at a steady pace.
• ARC, along with most trading companies operating in this environment have lost many hobby customers to the likes of operators which you suggest. A certain percentage of that loss is due to the buyer having poor product knowledge, viewing YT videos and buying good or bad products through the sites you mention. Many such buyers are new to the hobby with zero engineering experience. Some loose interest quickly and move on, and some stay, happy with their purchase, or replace with products from reputable companies.
• Many Chinese trading companies operating through fulfilment freight forwarders based in Southampton shut down, or went bust, or moved on to freight forwarder fulfilment centres in Hamburg for example. This took place after UK HMRC warned such UK freight forwarders to clean up their act or be held liable for certain practices. It would seem that the customs in Hamburg are more accommodating to such companies, turning a blind eye. We can only hope that sooner or later they too will/might see the light.
• Things are not so rosy for German companies servicing the hobby/engineering sector. I am aware of well known companies (which I don't wish to name), who are suffering because of such Chinese companies setting up in Hamburg. In one case, to compete against the Chinese trader, the traditional German business changed from a good Chinese supplier to a cheaper bad Chinese source, resulting in poor quality. They are suffering.
• As a wise 'Bandersnatch' (member on this forum) once told me, If we are unable to compete, it would be better to get out of the kitchen. Rather then compromise by failing to supply a consistent product, ARC has dropped sales of quite a few products.
• Regardless of how big the Ali/Banggood/Ebay/Amazon platforms are, they still mainly serve the hobby market, which is far smaller than the business engineering market throughout UK and Europe.

Ketan at ARC

And I believe that this was the outcome. We wait and see who will implement the outcome, and how.

Ketan at ARC.

pgk,

Agreed. Something to do with the arrangement they have with the 'Postal Union'. Don't know the full details. All I am aware of is that the U.S. recently held them to account. Without getting political, it would be interesting to see if the EU decide to do something similar in the coming months and years.

Ketan at ARC.

Ignatz,

With exception of a few countries like Israel (for low value personal imports), value of goods for the purpose of calculating VAT in most countries has always been based/calculated on the total of value of products ordered + carriage + duty.

Ketan at ARC.

Hi Chris B,

At present ARCs policy is to ship directly to overseas customers only. We do not supply to groupage hubs, or third party importer nominated freight forwarders as, based on past experience, they come with their own bag and range of problems. Again, yes, we do loose orders as a result of us failing to consider this idea.

But, the answer to your question is: YES it would be considered as a local purchase and U.K. VAT would be charged on such purchase, in accordance with U.K. law. The only time such a consignment is not subject to VAT is if the groupage hub is a recognised freight forwarder, and provided the freight forwarder is prepared to provide clear proof of shipment for the specific consignment, in a form which is suitable for U.K. HMRC. Usually, such freight forwarders may charge the shipper for such a document, and normally, such third party service providers are always too busy, and need to be chased regularly by the shipper to obtain such a document.

Ketan at ARC.

Hi Chris B and Dave B,

You guys are on the right track. Here is a snippit from Parcelforces communication:

• At present it is difficult to say how many orders shipped out from ARC into E.U. will have a total value including carriage of below 22 euros. Although I am aware of Chinese traders practices, It would be wrong for reputable companies to abuse the system, and we know that we will loose custom as a result.
• From 1st July 2021, it is suggested that the E.U. will remove the duty and VAT free for orders below 22 euros.

According to U.K. HMRC the low value duty and vat free incentive for orders below £15.00 entering into the U.K. will be abolished at the end of this year. You can read more here on GOV.UK website. This topic was discussed earlier on a different thread, and Michael Gilligan had provided this or similar link I believe.

Ketan at ARC.

Some of our customers in Europe may be aware that there are transit delays for orders shipped from U.K. into Europe.

Keeping this in mind, we request our European customers to place their orders through or website by 23rd December 2020. All such orders will be processed and dispatched on 24th December 2020. This will hopefully allow our couriers - DHL to enter the European Union by road service, before the 31st of December 2020.

ARC will stop - suspend selling into Europe from close of business on 23rd December 2020. ARC will re-start taking orders for selling into Europe on or around 5th January 2021.

With effect from 1st January 2021, new customs rules will apply for goods entering into Europe.

The good news for our E.U. customers will be that they will not have to pay U.K. VAT with effect from 1st January 2021. That is the only good news. The bad news at present is as follows:

1. Our couriers will have to make an export entry to leave the U.K., and they will have to make an import entry in the destination country. At present, the couriers will charge us and all U.K. exporters a fee for making an export entry of between £2.50 to £4.50. They will charge the importer between £11.50 to £13.00 to make an import entry in the country of destination.

2. There will be a delay in export from the U.K. for around two to three days while the couriers prepare and lodge export entries with U.K. customs for all the consignments which are loaded in specific road trailers. After this procedure is completed the trailer will be allowed to enter the channel tunnel or get on a ferry into Europe.

3. From 5th January 2021, the shipping charges stated on our website for shipping into E.U. destinations will include U.K. export entry charges (between £2.50 to £4.50) in addition to the road freight charges.

4. Once the goods reach their destination, depending on the couriers administration system in the country of import, they will contact the importer to ask them to pay the import entry charge (between £11.50 to £13.00) and taxes - duty (for goods above a certain value) and local VAT in the destination E.U. state. Once this is paid, the goods will be delivered to the importer. So, once again, this will cause delay.

At ARC,we believe that these costs are too high for most small value orders. These costs will be on top of the courier road freight costs which will also be increasing by 4.9% across all courier which we currently use.

At present we are uncertain if a solution for reduction in courier costs and delays can be found. If and when this happens, we will provide our customers with an update.

For now, we can only apologise for the inconvenience. We are very much aware that this development will make ARC less competitive for consideration by our E.U. customers.

Ketan at ARC.

Martin,

The SX2 spindle is usually MT3 or R8.

So, depending on which version you buy/get from Globaltools.dk, consider:

MT3 - ER25 chuck system or

R8 - ER25 chuck system

If you want to buy variable quality of such collet systems - consider the Banggood route. You will not get any links on here as this has been kept off discussion - read Code of Conduct link

Generally, for re-sell value, SX2s with R8 spindles are better, and also considered better for cnc conversions. To understand, read a book, or do some research.

Ketan at ARC.

Hi Peter,

Some clarification, and corrections are in order:

• The SX2 or the SX2P are small mini-mills. It would be too costly for Martin to import by himself direct from China, even if SIEG were to supply him directly, probability of which are next to zero nowadays. He would be better off looking for supply of the machine from a reputable European dealer.
• ARC introduced the X3* back in 2003, and promoted the SIEG brand, before SIEG understood the meaning of branding, and well before Axminster decided to to promote the SIEG brand. In the early 2000s, it was possibly for any individual to purchase directly from SIEG. Most such individuals saw the machine in our catalogue, as well as at the shows we attended, and then decided to buy direct. Originally, SIEG obliged, but as the dealer network grew, many dealers persuaded SIEG to re-consider their position on direct supply to individuals in areas where SIEG has dealers. In-turn, distributor loyalty with SIEG has grown to a certain extent.
• Each dealer - distributor decides which machines they wish to sell, as well as the versions of the machine which they wish to sell - MT/R8. If the end user/buyer wishes to buy an alternative machine or alternative version, the dealer decides if they wish to supply the version the buyer wants. In most cases, SIEG will not interfere in this process.
• ARC only sells models and versions of SIEG machines which it wants to sell. This is based on 18 years of ARCs sales and service experience in this industry. Requests for models and versions outside the range we sell are politely declined.
• Earlier, with reference to collect chuck systems, you mentioned: 'they offered their own version of a collet system, which you have with 6,10,12 &16 mm collets.'. Yes they do. They look similar to ER collect systems, but are non-standard, with limited availability of collets, and generally expensive. In the early days we used to offer non-standard collet systems which were same as SIEG, but quickly dropped them after understanding limitations - especially for sales, and costs which are higher than ER. I believe that one or two competitors still sell the non-standard system.

* Although the X3 is still sold by SIEG in small numbers, it was discontinued by ARC in 2013, and replaced with SX3 - Brushless motor version.

It is important that Martin considers his direction based on current trends, and for this reason, the above clarification is made, without any disrespect to you Peter.

It would be better for Martin to consider Bazyls, Stuart Smith 5s, and Journeymans suggestions.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 21/11/2020 15:19:59

Lol. There are times when my team and I also get it wrong, and times when we disagree with a customer. The customers who feel we have done wrong have a different opinion of our customer service.

We are a small business. Companies on your side of the pond are around five times+ bigger than us, so experiences of customer service good and questionable will be more amplified.

My personal experiences have been related to retail stores during a visit to New York some twelve odd years ago, where I found the people working in stores - big and small to be very helpful. During my stay there I also visited Travers where the staff were very helpful and friendly. I also meet the then owner of Victor Machinery, who showed me a paper catalogue issued by his grandfather I think, back in 1940s. He showed me around his place and introduced me to his great team. I recall being amused watching them use gum paper tape to pack cartons and thinking it was old fashioned, or possibly the American way. ARC adopted the same idea some three years ago.

I also have a chat now and then with Chris Wood - LittleMachineShop. I find him and his team to be very helpful too.

I did learn a few good things from my visit, as I am sure we all do from new experiences. I am sure that there must be more good companies there too.

Ketan at ARC

DaveD

At present I am working from home.

After Ian (our Sales Manager) read my post, he called me to clarify.

Mark had called and discussed the problem at length with Ian and Brett. He was quite open and honest about the possibility that the damage could have taken place due to overload. Based on the discussion, both Ian and Brett decided to supply the replacement board and belt free of charge on this occasion, and Mark took their advice about working within the limitations of the machine. Ian and Brett requested Mark to keep the details of the solution confidential, as every problem is dealt with on a case by case basis. Decision taken by them for another person may be different.

My apologies for incorrect post.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 12/11/2020 21:28:03

Board damaged due to overload, and belt stripped. New board and belt purchased (Although it wasn't a warranty issue, supplied at subsidised price after mutual agreement)

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 12/11/2020 16:53:23

that looks very close to the edge where the two points meet. Glad you got away with it.

Ketan at ARC

Generally, I like the way this forum looks.

To some extent I think many of us are misunderstanding Lee. I think in his way he is trying to suggest improvements in functionality in certain areas. Many of us have experienced one thing or other in functionality which we have found irritating at times. Even the moderators would like to see some improvement in places.

However, the bespoke platform on which this forum is built on limits what the developer can do to make improvements. Off the top of my head, the platform on which this site is built is about 15 years old. Things have changed/improved heavily since then.

One can migrate onto a new platform with new software, and the layout can be similar to existing site. Small additions for improvement in functionality can be made so that the existing users can feel comfortable.

It is easy for us to say - if you build it, they will stay and more will come. But the risk - financial cost/investment? is MTMs. Regardless, as explained earlier, there is likely to be short term pain.

Browsers and search engines keep developing. For how long the platform can function in its current state is difficult to say. In many ways, this forum is about promoting the hobby of engineering. In years to come, how easy or difficult will it be for new people to find and join this forum if it remains in its current state? and will they be interested enough to stay and use the forum as it stands?

At the same time, is it worth MTMs time and money to do anything? Questions which only they can answer.

Ketan at ARC

... John Haine commented similar before my post up. Thanks John

Edited By Ketan Swali on 11/11/2020 22:36:21

Edited By Ketan Swali on 11/11/2020 22:38:39

Lee,

This is an observation rather than being disrespectful in any way.

Okay, so I understand Google and other meta-collectors know that sites move from using one software package to another. Also moving from bespoke to something which  is also known to Google and other meta-collectors.

Regardless of how one changes from one software to another, the process of migration is painful. Software providers always present a rosy picture without really dealing with consequences, as, with the best will in the world, they do not have a crystal ball.

Here is an example which shows how changing the software could potentially effect this forum.:

During most of 2019, homeshopmachist.net led the global rank for similar forums at around 122,000 (smaller the number, the better it is). Over the months which followed, its ranking started to fall due to various reasons - partly related to Google algorithms, and partly related to the way that forum was structured. By November last year, the world ranking had dropped to around 470,000, and this forum took over the first spot at around 460,000.

Homeshopmachinist ranking kept falling. Earlier this year, don't know exactly when (someone here might know), changed their forum software. By early March this year, their global position had dropped to around 900,000 and stayed there until around early September. From there on, it started to improve. Today its global position is at around 800,000, taking the top position, with this forum being in second place at around 970,000. This overall change is more to do with how Googlebot sees these sites. The flat period from March to September for Homeshopmachinist is a long period of pain, but the better format of urls helps to find subjects on their sites more easily after the googlebot has crawled it. This is a technical factor, but it seems that the googbots maybe moving very slowly.

I used the 'better user friendly url' thought process to search for problems relating to introduction of new software, and came up with this thread: link

When you click on the link, you will see various good, and bad responses to the change over to the new software.

I do not have a view one way or another. It is true that for the long term survival of this forum, changes will need to be considered, especially as currently most similar sites world ranking are on a downward trend . All I am presenting is an example of potentially what is in store for MTM, if and when they change software.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 11/11/2020 17:40:47

Edited By Ketan Swali on 11/11/2020 17:42:58