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Member postings for s d

Here is a list of all the postings s d has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Have I made a mistake buying a MT3 mill?
23/06/2023 11:46:34

Chester have a deal on their VS30 mill atm so I took the plunge. I've been looking at so many different models and manufacturers I didn't notice the Chester is MT3 not R8. I have no experience with either as I've never had a mill.

Will I regret it?

Thread: mini lathe dial accuracy
11/06/2023 11:37:03
Posted by not done it yet on 09/06/2023 12:42:03:

My initial thoughts were the same as Tim and Andrew.

Next was when the OP said ‘sesitive but not necessarily that accurate made me wonder if a dti was being mistaken for a micrometer.

Other thoughts were whether the carriage and/or cross slides were locked down if/ when checking the compound travel. A decent thread gauge may well be good enough to prove/demonstrate if the threads are imperial or metric?

Don’t ‘sneak up” is my advice. The cut will be consistent only as long as the increments are the same. Get used to taking the last couple of cuts (at least) with the same depth of cut and feed rate. Better to take a deeper cut than trying to cut the last 0.02mm on the lathe - most especially if using un-polished carbide cutters/inserts.

Yes, I didn't understand that a dti was much more imprecise than a micrometer. I've been watching many videos on YouTube and ubiquity of their use especially for measuring machine set up made me trust mine perhaps more than I should have. All good learning experience.

I think I saw a clickspring video about 'sneaking up', and the way I understood what he meant was not taking ever smaller cuts, but dividing what you want removed into decent sized regular chunks, that way you can more easily keep track of errors and deflection as you go and then be able to make the final adjustment adding or subtracting a small amount from that final cut which is still of near optimal depth before spring and finishing passes. This makes a lot of sense to me as you're reducing variables as much as possible. It's still all theoretical as I've yet to make any super precise parts, but interesting. Good to hear the same thing from a 2nd source, thanks for the insight 👍🏻

09/06/2023 11:33:59
Posted by Hopper on 09/06/2023 11:01:58:
Posted by s d on 09/06/2023 06:30:56:

... I got essentially no error. 10.01mm over 10mm of travel.

...

Don't expect to consistently get that level of precision when actually cutting metal, due to tool wear, machinery flex, material flex, tool clamping shift, backlash, lathe bed aligmment etc etc.

Accuracy of the dials on the cross and top slides is a bit of a moot point in daily use. Even if you did have the original (disproved) 0.025 per 1mm error, you would not normally notice it in daily use in a home workshop. A 1mm deep cut is a roughing cut so 0.025mm error would not matter. Finishing cuts are taken at a depth circa 0.1mm to 0.02mm, so the error over that short distance would be immesureably small.

You will find once you get to know your lathe, you will not look at the dials much for roughing out. You know 1 turn of the handle is 1mm so that is near enough, or half a turn for half a mm etc. Then the dials come into play for the fine finishing cuts. Even then you usually need to measure between every cut and "sneak up" on the desired dimension.

These are good points, thanks. I figured I would need to be measuring and sneaking up for fine work so it makes sense that in practice it wouldn't matter much. I think its still useful for understanding where exactly I am in the measurement landscape as it were, what tools I can trust, what not etc and in which circumstances. And just to know how (im)precise my lathe is. As a beginner there's a lot to take in and reducing variables helps.

09/06/2023 10:25:09
Posted by John Haine on 09/06/2023 06:54:48:

Result! Good work.

Yes. Thanks!

09/06/2023 06:38:43
Posted by Tim Hammond on 08/06/2023 21:01:24:

I have a Clarke CL300 mini lathe, and although the dials are graduated in Imperial measurements, the various screws have metric pitches. Hence 0.040" on the dial (one complete revolution) is actually only 0.039" ( 1 mm = 0.03937" ) Could this be the source of your problem?

HTH.

Edited By Tim Hammond on 08/06/2023 21:02:11

Yes good point. I did consider this, the markings are for both 0.001" and 0.025mm. But 0.001" is 0.0254mm, so it should reach a whole unit slightly before a full turn, and accumulate, if the threads were imperial. My more accurate test suggests they are metric so all is good.

09/06/2023 06:32:59
Posted by DC31k on 08/06/2023 21:32:53:

If you are using an indicator, instead of measuring only one turn of the handwheel, measure as many turns as the indicator travel will allow.

That will do two things: average out any local errors and confirm if the errors accumulate.

You could also set the compound parallel to the cross slide and wind one in and the other out (after having taken up backlash) and check that net movement is zero. That might eliminate the effects of angular error referred to above.

Edited By DC31k on 08/06/2023 21:33:49

 

Great tip re setting the compound parallel to the cross slide, I'm curious to try it just because...

Edited By s d on 09/06/2023 06:33:25

09/06/2023 06:30:56
Posted by John Haine on 08/06/2023 20:42:35:

Was the travel of the indicator exactly parallel to the axes? .025 error in 1mm travel would be caused by 1.4 degrees out of parallel I think. If the error is real and the lathe new you should seek a refund.

Morning all...

I repeated the measurement with a much more precise setup. I think an out of parallel error is one of the main things I was seeing. The indicator has a very short collar, not much to judge by. That and I've learned that indicator dials are sensitive but not necessarily that accurate.

I clamped a digital vernier guage under the toolpost (a cheap one!) which allowed me to get it as absolutely parallel to the compound as I could visually (sighting a hair-width gap between the straight edge and the compound over about 15cm, assuming the latter is parallel to its dovetail) and rigid and measured off the tailstock.

I got essentially no error. 10.01mm over 10mm of travel.

This taught me a lot about these tools and methods. Thanks for all the responses helping to figure this out.

Edited By s d on 09/06/2023 06:39:10

08/06/2023 19:25:09
Posted by John Haine on 08/06/2023 19:15:59:

No, it is not normal, but since it applies to both axes it may be your indicator. These are not precision devices. better would be to use a feeler gauge ideally calibrated against a micrometer.

OK that's good to know in terms of expectation. I did also check at multiple regions of the indicators travel and it was consistent at least. I don't have any other guages unfortunately.

08/06/2023 19:21:37
Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 08/06/2023 19:15:25:

Have you checked the accuracy of your dial indicator over the travel that you're using?

No, but I did cross check with a digital vernier guage and got the same result. That could still be inaccurate, but it is the same degree of error.

08/06/2023 18:11:44

Hi, first post, hello all.

I've bought a mini lathe and have a question about accuracy of the dials on the cross slide and compound. These seem to be consistently out by 0.025-0.05mm, 1-2 markings when making a full rotation. I'm checking them against an indicator and it seems pretty consistent on both dials, requiring a bit more than indicated to get to a full 1mm travel. Is this normal?

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