Member postings for Temporary Nickname Guy

Greetings, all.

As promised / threatened, some questions about pinion construction / design have come up; if I would do well to start a new thread, someone should feel free to let me know... But It made no sense to clutter up the site with such mundane questions, for the time being.

Obviously, the pinions (I call them lanterns, but perhaps this is just an Americanism...) are constructed by inserting short lengths of music wire, into suitably located, blind drilled holes within two hub flanges, the entry holes then being staked over to retain the wire stock.

Under magnification, my first pinion to engage the clock gear-train is a truly sad sight, and the ways in which it is worn, ultimately lead to my question. Each pinion wire, when held in tweezers has considerable end float, and is adrift in holes significantly larger than the nominal wire diameter; The holes being quite noticeably larger in one flank of the hub than the other, suggesting the wires were no longer parallel to the shaft axis, when under load.

Can anyone tell me: When NEW, would the wires have been a slight interference fit in the holes of the hub flanks, and fixed in place when staked, or would they have been allowed a small bit of clearance, (both axially and radially) permitting them to "roll" in their holes, (as bearing surfaces) when each wire cycled through the teeth of the corresponding driving gear?

Some of the wires show definite wear (a prominent flat spot) in a single region, suggesting they spent much of their working lives in a single, fixed orientation... While an adjacent wire may show no such wear, suggesting perhaps it had the freedom to "roll" as it engaged the gear teeth, a new region of the wire being engaged randomly each turn of the pinion.

In any case, they all positively clatter around, like marbles in a cigar box, at the moment!

The question arises, because while I can conceive of a variety of repair options, any advice might help winnow out the least advisable ones. (I'll be the first to acknowledge that several of the options being considered, are... Perhaps functional, but less than glamorous!)Thanks in advance!

Edited By Temporary Nickname Guy on 05/10/2020 07:01:28

Old Duffer: I believe I stumbled on some of the same info you linked to, was amused to hear the details of the factory at various points in time... Including the number of children employed ! As you suggest, it sounds like the author noted the significance of the change from wood to brass components, inadvertently giving the impression Jerome were the very first, rather than just early in mass production. Sounds like its hard to know the exact origin of your Grandmothers clock, but fun to ponder.

Martin Perman: Sad about the shipping damage, but gave you the opportunity to "personalize" your clock, well done. My only experience with similar work was reproducing a nameplate for a Myford grinder which had seen better days; While I was quite proud of the .jpg file I created for the job, and the finished product was satisfying...Time will have revealed it was nothing to brag about. As it was merely Ink-Jet printed onto clear decal paper, applied to polished aluminium plate, then given a "rattle can" coat of clear ...It is unlikely to have held up very well under the coolant / oil ! (Left that shop, before the machine returned to service.)

Nothing to say about my own clock project today, but thanks to one and all for their thoughts, great fun.

Greetings from another newly minted American member (California); Joined a few weeks ago, the result of some clock making questions, but first love is miniature I/C and steam engines; Hoping to rekindle my enthusiasm for all hobbies, as set aside for decades when "life" got in the way.

Jealous of your equipment, lost most of mine a few years back, now reduced to "files and hack saws", projects which fit in a shoe box, for the time being. I had a very nice Atlas lathe in my garage for many years, but took it for granted, as I was working at the time in a machine shop, had continual access to larger, newer machines; No longer working there, I miss the Atlas daily, more than I would have thought.

To date, nothing but positive things to say about the forum, suspect you will agree!

Perhaps it was a bit premature of me to ask about the pendulum behavior at this stage of repairs, but thanks to all for their thoughts up to this point ! The app(s) mentioned will undoubtedly come in handy in the future, and a more careful inspection of the pendulum components will be in order, after reassembly; Roy Entwistle: I suspect you are correct, it almost seems UN -likely that this clock wasn't carelessly moved (many times) over the years... Giving me something to do now! I feel fortunate to have stumbled upon this design as my first effort, as all of the components of the pendulum and escapement live outside of the main plates, will be readily accessible with minimum effort.

Update:

As I heard no objections, I have (nearly) completed work swapping the main gears on their winding axles, in the hope of using the unworn flanks of each gear; Of the three sets of gears from which I could choose, I selected the ones which were original to my movement, for two reasons:

1) They were made from noticeably thicker stock; The other sets incorporate numerous design "improvements" (read: cheaper ?), suggesting later production.

2) The original gears are the only ones with ratchet pawls (clicks ?) of a symmetrical design, resembling a "fishtail", instead of a "comma". I thought I was being clever, imagining I could simply "flop" that design of pawl over to the opposite orientation, without needing to remove and re-rivet them. What I neglected to notice, however, is that while the profile is symmetrical, only one side of the "fishtail" has the tiny milled feature which engages the click return spring, so removal and re-riveting will be in order after all.

Next up for inspection: The gears on the next axle(s) in each train (is "second motion" pinion and gear the correct term ? please correct me, if not)...

Expect questions about pinion design, how they tend to wear, possible remedies; Thanks in advance, to all those with patience for amateur enthusiasm !

MichaelG:

Thank you for the links, interesting information. I spent many years rebuilding automotive engines, re-metaling and align boring main bearings. As a result, I'm very comfortable locating shaft centers, repositioning them with precision, should geometry need to be altered to suit gear mesh, etc... But all of this was on a far larger scale, with equipment and components I could "walk around". Please don't hear that as boastful: I'll confess, working at clock scale is intimidating to me, despite my experience elsewhere, those who do it well have my respect. I'm certain more questions about re bushing technique will arise.

For the moment, I have a question regarding the pendulum, having noticed odd behavior during the two days this clock ran on the bench. Beyond the normal Oscillation about the suspension point, the bob weight would also always tend to rotate or "yaw" slightly, back and forth about the suspension axis. At first I thought I had merely been clumsy with my effort to set it into motion, but no matter how careful I was, this behavior would be seen, and not tend to damp out over time.

Aside from being unsightly, doesn't this indicate (unintended) forces being placed on the pendulum rod when in operation, despite design features intended to prevent same? I could see no obvious geometry or interference problems, but am confident someone smarter than myself may know what is going on here. A common problem, with common causes?

Greetings, all.

I'm new to the forum, this is my first post, (aside from an introduction, in the appropriate thread).

I have been active in model engineering for many years now, (on and off) but mostly miniature I/C engines; While instrument repair has long been an interest, this is my first real world clock experience, forgive me if questions seem foolish (I do try to search past threads, glean answers from there, before posting.)

I have an ordinary New Haven movement, in a modest case, of unknown origin, photos in an album (if I have done that correctly!)

Briefly: Grandma had the works replaced with quartz, 20 years ago, but all parts saved, I would like to reunite the movement with the case, but am mindful that they were removed for a reason. I made a crude stand, leveled the movement out, and was able to make it "run" in fits and starts (after a few tweaks). Accuracy entirely unknown at this point, (and of secondary importance), but 48 hours of continuous operation encouraged me to pursue things... Even as an overnight mainspring failure ended that two day run.

I purchased two similar movements from E-bay, advertised as "scrap / parts only", for my education, and have since disassembled and inspected the movement I care enough to restore. Springs on order.

The first obvious problem is significant wear on the first motion gears of the mainspring axles. (Proper terms ?) It occurs to me that it would be no big trick to remove the gears from their axles, swap and remount them in new drive / coast orientation, the click springs etc relocated to suit... And have fresh gear faces pressed into service.

The wisdom of spending one's time to do so, aside... Am I missing something obvious? If done in a workmanlike manner, would it still strike some as a bodge job?

Thanks, more to come.

Thank you for the welcome ! As an American, who is also a dyed in the wool Anglophile, I have long enjoyed the subtle differences between our "two" languages, how they have drifted over the years, as well as how each has evolved regionally, in both the UK and US. Members will likely catch me referring to components by Americanisms or even my own "made up" / common sense terminology, I'll be keen to learn what others consider correct terminology.

Sorry to hear of your grandmother's NH clock, but amusing that an Englishman would consider a Connecticut clock "ancient"... I'm jealous and mindful of the rich history Europe and the UK enjoy. As a Californian, "old" feels like anything circa 1950, "ancient" circa 1900... But am ever mindful others enjoy far more perspective.

My clock briefly: 19" tall, case of unknown origin, "Mission" style or "Arts + Crafts" style? (may try to upload pic); Stands on 4 feet, so not a wall clock, but perhaps too large to call a mantle clock? (Perhaps what we here would have called a "kitchen clock"?

Inherited from Grandmother, (sentimental value, likely little monetary value), she had the works replaced 20 years ago with quartz (now also failed), but all original parts saved, and appear in good nick. I made a crude stand to hold movement level and plumb, lubricated it (farmer style, for now), and got it working, after some preliminary, seat of the pants adjustments. Several odd behaviors observed (for later), but did run continuously for one 48 hour stretch, encouraging me to pursue further.

Purchased (lot of 3) similar (shabby, but mostly complete) movements on E-bay (sad, how little they are valued) for possible parts, learning opportunity; Am drawing them in my CAD program, for fun and education. (Does anyone already know the correct / as designed distances between shaft center lines, for a garden variety NH?)

Last night, went out to garage to see if still running... Only to discover the mainspring had clearly failed that day. I now feel quite comfortable disassembling it, but delaying for the moment; Mindful the gong spring is still intact, and both springs need to be properly handled when that day comes.

Sorry to go on so long, briefer posts in future, perhaps in a more appropriate thread than "INTRODUCTIONS", open to suggestions, relocation if moderator sees fit.

Greetings to all; I'm new to the site, and have limited social media / forum experience, forgive me if I go astray. I'll do my best to search for past threads addressing specific questions, before cluttering up the works with a "FAQ"

Model engineering has been a hobby for 35 years, mostly steam and internal combustion engines; Clock repair has always been an interest, but only recently have I begun any actual work, having inherited a clock from a relative.

(I suspect) it is a rather ordinary New Haven movement, any questions which arise will be similarly basic. I generally like to figure things out for myself, but recognize in this instance, others will have a wealth of experience and wisdom; Why risk doing harm, reinvent the wheel, when advice is readily available. I figured I would join, and see where the threads lead me.

Will finish profile set-up shortly, Thanks.