Member postings for David-Clark 1

Another thought about CNC machines, competence and a stupid manager (Managing Director this time),

The firm spent 1/2 million on a CNC horizontal machining centre with 60 BHP at the spindle nose.

The MD decided that it would validate his purchase by using it to machine a hardened steel aircraft components so the machine was all tooled up for this one particular job.

The problem was as the job was hardened steel, it had to be cut at low speeds resulting in the 60 BHP being reduced to 2 BHP at, the spindle. The job got completed eventually but took a very long time.

Hi Silly Old Duffer

i fail to see how a five-day Centre Lathe Turning course can prepare you to use a vertical milling machine to produce engineering projects.

if they don’t know the difference between a lathe and a milling machine I don’r have much hope for the quality of the course.

This five-day Centre Lathe Turning training course gives delegates the skills and knowledge they need safely to operate a vertical milling machine to produce engineering products.

he courses are almost £900 + VAT making them about £10,80 each. That sounds reasonable for a 5 day course.

Thet mention that there is still a demand for manual engineers despite CNC being the mainstay of engineering now.

I would disagree with this assumption.You need to know how to manually turn and mill before you can use a CNC machine properly.

I have seen dozens of CNC millers and turners who can program but have no idea on work holding, tool sharpening, speeds and feeds Eric.

Orne large factory I worked at, the foreman used to hand out the work, he gave jobs that were ideal for CNC to the manual millers and manual work to to the CNC millers. I was on night shift so I just used whichever machine that was more suitable for the job in hand.

I have stood next to my CNC machine while the owner and the foreman argued over who should do a particular job. The foreman wanted me to do the job the owner said anyone should be able to do the job as we were all being paid the same. The foreman won and I did the job.

Continued from previous post

I used that cheat sheet to write a basic program and rewrote it using the works computer to do what I wanted for several years.

I got a job again as a turret miller and they got a large CNC mill in. It was a large Hurco and they employed a CNC programmer for it. He was very nervous and kept making programming mistakes so he was let go.

I was asked to try and program this machine which was very large and had an automatic tool changer. I tried it out even though it was much larger than I was used to. I started by programming it in the X Y axis. I could not do much damage other than hit the bed trips a bit hard.

No problem there. I started on the Z axis slowly but quickly got up and running with no problems, again self taught.

Almost everything I have ever ‘done in engineering has been self taught, Silver soldering, 100 sticks of silver solder a week soon taught me how to do it. Power presses, up to 150 ton, I had to climb up on top about 10 feet in the air to change the stroke, self taught. I have mainly worked as a miller but I did get a job as a turner when I had only worked a capstan lathe but I coped thanks to Model Engineer,

I have a lot to thank Model Engineer for. I started in a factory at £7 a week. I have earned up to £998 a week after tax ibecause of Model Engineer and being self taught.

I offered to edit 16mm Today, the house magazine of the16mm Narrow Gauge Society. After a trial I got the job. This was an unpaid position but was about something I was interested in. Never done editing before, so self taught.

I had already applied to be editor of Model Engineers’ Workshop about 10 years previously but after speaking to Geoff Shepherd, I think, the editor at the time, I did not find follow through because they wanted someone who lived near Hemel Hempstead who could visit the office regularly. Also it was only a part time job.

After editing 16 MM Today for about 18 months Dave Fenner announced he was leaving Model Engineers’ Workshop. I applied and got the job. I could work from home but they wanted someone full time. I took the job despite the pay cut of about £350 a week because I wanted to do it.

I had to edit 10 magazines a year. I edited the first 2 magazines in a fortnight and had nothing to do for the next month

Everything I have ever done has been self taught. I have earned a lot of money and machined a lot of interesting items over the years

One thing stands out in my mind. I saw a lovely photo of a Darjeeling Himalayan tank locomotive on the front cover of Model Engineer. I wondered why it had not been written up and drawings published?

Little did I know that about 40 years later I would be publishing a series about building that engine in Model Engineer.

Thank you Ray McMahon for a dream come true.

Notable moment in Model Engineers’ Workshop, yhe CBC Tool and Cuter Grinder, I think a world first.

So, self taught is good.

Regarding part finished models for sale from dealers. A large locomotive, traction engine or other project will take a very long time and it will cost a lot of money. I have the skills to build a locomotive but would not have the patience to spend several years on a project I would never use. I find the pleasure would be in building the project, not running it when it is finished so I would lose interest once completed.

I will be making some of the smaller Stuart engines, a 10V and a 10H and might have a go at a 16mm locomotive, I quite like the little Pecket or Hundlet saddle tanks but first I want to build “Chuck’s” little gas engine from Model Engineer back in the late 60s early 70s.

So, each to his own but don’t let a lack of formal training put you off, the more you learn, the more you will be capable of. If you don’t have the patience to teach yourself, don’t start a big expensive model. Start small and complete something before moving on.

Hi there

Split pasting as too long

i am self taught,.

I started reading Model Engineer in the school library at 12 years old, and learnt by reading all the articles.

I did not get a home workshop for many years. With the knowledge learned I started factory work at 15 and was a factory foreman at 18>

The manager was a total twat. He would sit in the office trying to work out how many hand washes we should be getting out of a bar of soap.

So I became foreman because despite having all the papers he did not want to get his hands dirty on the shop floor. He eventually left to start his own engineering consultancy. As far as I could see was his only engineering skill was breaking into his old Rover Car on a weekly basis because because he had looked his keys in again.

When he started as manager he started by clearing the rubbish out of the factory mezzanine floor.

We got all the rubbish outside and burnt it but we also threw loads of swarf on it. This was on a Saturday morning and we clocked out at lunch time. Monday morning he moaned he was stuck there until 7pm Saturday evening because he could not get the fire out.

I went on to self employment as a turret miller a few years later. Never done turret milling before but soon learnt. A turret mill was just a large vertical mill, most commonly a Bridgeport mill. This was over 40 years ago and I was earning £300 ro £400 a week back them, a lot of money.

I next got a job as a CNC miller. I had no idea how to program a CNC mill but the boss said the other miller would teach me programming Monday morning arrived and I was put to work operating the mill. Tuesday the man training me didn’t arrive. He phoned in sick. He had shingles and he was off for 6 weeks with shingles.

The company only had two CNC mills so they gave me the machine manual and said basically get on with it.

On the first day, I broke one drill but I was off. I had an interest in computer programming at the time, still do. So I used to write Quick basic programs that I could convert to Heidenhain, the programming language used by that particular CNC controller maker. I wrote programs that automated the creation of programs to mill a hexagon. Enter the diameter of the cutter and the hexagon AF size and the program would mill the hexagon and move to a safe position and stop. Program resize took about 30 seconds instead of the usual 30 minutes, Another one did flanges where it drilled the 3 holes and milled the profile.

About 6 weeks later my “trainer” came back. He was upset that I had taught myself without him. He left a few weeks later.

Some time later I went for a job as a Fanuc control CNC miller. I did not have a clue how to program in G code. Yes, you’ve guessed it. I taught, myself. I took the manual home overnight, read it, Made a cheat sheat on a floppy disk and a printout and started work

Hi Silly Old Duffer.

Yes, bad managers are everywhere. Few, like me are good managers.

I have had couriers, probably Hermes, who could not speak a word of English.

I had a parcel from the USA at least 20 years ago, it disappeared, the driver said he had delivered it but could not remember where. I got ot a replacement about a month later but I know the driver had to pay the $270 out of his own pocket.

my bungalow is hard to find but I probly lose 1 out of 10 parcels, usually `Hermes and EBay combined.

Amazon parcels usually arrive ok but 1 or 2 have gone missing.Most drivers for Hermes are usually foreign.

Hi Hopper

Looks like you are getting there.

I think a lot of drill presses are deliberately machined so the table is not flat because they bend down from the pressure of the drill.

I would probably do that reamed hole in a mill by drilling an undersized hole and boring with a 7/16 old end mill or slot drill before finish reaming or boring.

If you have a slightly undersized slot drill you can get the size perfect by shimming out with a bit of very thin paper in the colletto make it cut larger.

Hi Hopper

Looks like you are getting there.

I think a lot of drill presses are deliberately machined so the table is not flat because they bend down from the pressure of the drill.

I would probably do that reamed hole in a mill by drilling an undersized hole and boring with a 7/16 old end mill or slot drill before finish reaming or boring.

If you have a slightly undersized slot drill you can get the size perfect by shimming out with a bit of very thin paper in the colletto make it cut larger.

Hi Hopper

I new I had seen other lever feeds in the past. I can usually remember most of the articles in ME over the years but not all the fine details.

For instance I remember a nice little drilling/ boring machine based on two bars like the original Unimat SL just by thinking about back issues.

it is al in my head, I just have to reindex it.

unfortunately I can no longer read the small text in the old MEs by I do have a lot of the early ones on PDF that I can read. Only just remembered I have got them.

That is why I like posting on the forum. As well as helping otes it helps me remember for myself.

No I am not senile, just old.

i knowwhat senile feels like. I thought I was losing my mind a while back. I was trying to remember lots of things and was completely confused. I eventually put it down to lack of food and weakness.

The trouble is I rarely feel hungry and am concentrating so much I forget to eat.

Hi Hopper

You could drill the outline and knock the waste off.

Then finish with a file.

Hi Hopper

That brings it back I think.

I believe it does leave the original hand wheel intact. I think where the half plate holds them wheel in place there is a shaped piece that can pivot out of the way to release the hand wheel. Only applicable to the old style Myford tailstock with the large round back end.

I believe Duplex did other tailstock attachments including a powered one possibly for a Myford M series or maybe a Drummond. M Lathe. I can see it in my mind but not the make of lathe.

Ian Bradley (half of Duplex partnership) published full designs in Model Engineer back in the 1950s.

Looks like a gauge for sheet metal but could be a hole depth gauge.

Are the slots on either side different or are each opposite pair the same width?

If different not taper gauge, if same probably is a taper hole gauge.

Hi Andrew,

Ketan’s backplates are fine, I have used them before and am about to order 2 more if the price is still reasonable.

Not ordered anything model engineering related from anybody for 8 years

Thank you for clarifying this.

Carbide end mills readily available on EBay. Both 3mm, 4mm and also 1/8th. About £5 each.

Also the 30 and 60 degree engraving cutters make excellent centre drills, I used them on angled faces to start off a drill with no problems.

Hi Bill

Not really done any research yet.

plywood would be quicker. Depend on length of lathe I suppose.

I can’t measure anything, wife took tape measure with her.

Just use a steel billet. Maybe a weight from a weight lifting set if the note is small is small enough.

This seller on eBay does an 80 mm a 40 mm billet for £9 with £6 postage.
(Search his other listings.) He may be able to cut the size you need,

Other sellers are available.

Hi Bazyle

I have just got my priorities right.

My wife left me a month ago and stayed with the next door neighbour until she got rehoused. She finally moved out today. Hurrah! Because I no longer need a front room, my son is decorating it and is using it as his bedroom.

His bedroom will become my computer room and workshop.

Not that I use my computer much, everything is now done on an iPad Pro.

I have not got a workshop at the moment, just a wooden shed with a few tools in boxes piled in with other junk. Some of them might be ok but might have been attacked by the rust worm.

I was bidding on EBay for a Unimat 3 with lots of equip,ent but was outbid and it sold for £1,100.

I found a larger lathe, a bit bigger than what I really wanted but it was too good a bargain to miss.

It was a brand new Myford Ml10 that has never been used. I hit it for £1,000 and negotiated £100 for delivery.

So it is going in the spare room.

The front room has laminated flooring do that is coming up and being replaced with carpet.

The laminate will be put into the bedroom/workshop. I hope to just lay it over the existing carpet but have not researched it yet. The laminate is to stop any dwarf dticking to my wheelchair wheels.

So, I have got my priorities right as you suggest. A workshop whereas before I could not get to my shed and my (ex) wife would not let me go into a workshop for over 5 years.

Are carbide end mills available with screwed shanks, never seen one. From experience screwed shank 6mm and 1/4 inch cutters for autolocks usually break out at the center end.

You can probably use plain shank cutters in a Crawford collet. I have used them in a Clarkson autolock holder by putting a washer behind the collet to close it.

If you can get away with a 3mm end mill, I used to use engraving cutters in a 3mm collet but you can sleeve them down from 6 to 3mm easily. I used to buy mine on EBay but that was around 10 years ago. I expect they are still available.

Hi Bazyle

Not into locos, I like them but not for me. At least, not in larger gauges, SM32 OK though I was more into making tools although I did build a Blackgates oscillating twin.

To old for clubs now, I can’t get there now due to disabilities.