Member postings for Turbine Guy

Michael Fueg described his turbine as a cross-flow type like the figure shown below and the photo of his turbine with one cover removed. This would be a velocity staged turbine since the gas passes through one set of blades before entering a second set of blades. Most of the information I have found is for hydraulic cross-flow turbines. The wind cross-flow turbines are used to generate power where a compact size is needed. It will be very interesting to see how the performance of this type of turbine compares with the ones I have already tested. Since Michaels turbine was successful powering a train, my turbine should be powerful enough to get good results from one of the propellers I use for testing.

Werner Jeggli saw the last post and thought he had seen this type of turbine used for driving a train. He sent me This Link. I asked him if he could get me a little more information about the turbine. He contacted Michael Fueg who created the video and the model train shown in it. Michael Emailed me some information about the train. He created this train to see if the turbine he bought was suitable to drive a train, so it was kept as simple as possible. It turned out that the turbine he used was the same as shown in the last post except for using a two-stage gear reduction instead of the single stage used on mine. Michael sent me this Second Link showing the train running and closeups of some of the details. As you can see from the videos, the turbine drives the train quite well. The following photo shows the details of the turbine attached to the frame.

Edited By Turbine Guy on 11/01/2023 16:30:20

Edited By Turbine Guy on 11/01/2023 16:39:52

Edited By Turbine Guy on 11/01/2023 16:52:39

I want to see how the model turbines I have built compare with ones that can be purchased. The Radial Turbine Link describes the Radial Turbine I just purchased shown in the photo below. The radial turbines seem to be the type most available and I have not tested this kind of turbine. I picked this particular model since it appeared to be a good design that seems to have ball bearings on each side of the rotor as shown in the drawing below. It also includes a speed reducer which is something I have also wanted to test. I created a Radial Turbine 1 folder and will update it as I get more information. This model is coming from China so It will be about a month before I receive it.

Edited By Turbine Guy on 09/01/2023 20:55:37

Edited By Turbine Guy on 09/01/2023 20:58:27

Mike and Martin,

Thanks for your kind remarks.

Byron

I added the first test results for the Seasky air motor shown below to the test sheet shown in the 22/07/2022 Post. The vane type air motor was very competitive with the Turbines and Engines I have tested at a surprisingly low cost.

A copy of the specifications given for the Seasky handpiece is shown below. No model number or dimensions were given. The OD of the housing is 20mm. It was surprisingly easy to attach the propeller and add an enlarged extension to the air inlet tube as shown in the following photo.

I wanted to test a small vane type motor so I couldn’t resist purchasing the Seasky dental handpiece from Ebay shown in the following picture. The photo below it shows the modified Seasky air motor next to the MSM Tyne steam engine to illustrate its size. The size and cost of $17.59 seemed hard to beat. I will add some more information and the first test results in the next posts.

Edited By Turbine Guy on 21/12/2022 19:08:52

It has been a while since I added anything to this thread. All my testing since the last post has been with turbines and posted in the Model Turbines thread. If you start with the 01/08/2022 Post and read the Model Turbines thread to the last post, it will bring you up to date on all the changes and testing I have done since I last updated this thread. The following chart summarizes the results of the testing done during this time. I added folders in my photos album showing the pictures, drawings, and test results for each of these turbines.

The following test sheet is the first test of Tangential Turbine 5A and Tangential Turbine 5B. The test of Tangential Turbine 5B was run immediately after the test of Tangential Turbine 5A so the only difference was adding Cover 5. The efficiency was the same with or without Cover 5. the 0.009" clearance between Cover 5 and the outer face of the rotor improved the efficiency enough to compensate for the pressure drop added by the cover.

The following photos show the parts and assembly of Tangential Turbine 5B.

I finished the machining on Cover 5 for the first test of Tangential Turbine 5B. The following drawing shows the placement of the rotor and the corresponding clearances. I needed a clearance of 0.009" between the outer face of the rotor and Cover 5 and a clearance of 0.012" between the inner face or the rotor and Housing 5. These clearances had to be this large to avoid contact due to the loose clearances of the dental ball bearings. The next posts will show some photos and the first test results.

The following are photos of Tangential Turbine 5A with the rotor positioned as shown in the drawing included in the last post.

I decided to add two new versions of Tangential Turbine 5. The first version will be Tangential Turbine 5A and will be the same as Tangential Turbine 5 shown in the 23/11/2022 post except will replace Housing 3 SD Gap with Housing 5. This will compare the performance of the housings with almost everything else the same. The first revision to the drawing for Tangential Turbine 5A shown below removed the cover, added the dimensions after machining, and showed the placement of the rotor that gave the best performance. I planned to keep the nozzle size 0.035” but had to open it to 0.041”. The second version of Tangential Turbine 5 will be called Tangential Turbine 5B and will be the same as Tangential Turbine 5A except will include Cover 5. Tangential Turbine 5B will be discussed after I finish the first machining of Cover 5. I will run Tangential Turbine 5A with the rotor positioned as shown in the following drawing and then run Tangential Turbine 5B immediately after. This will keep everything the same except the addition of Cover 5. The next post will shows photos of Tangential Turbine 5A.

The following drawing shows the design dimensions and actual printed dimensions for Housing 5 and Cover 5 of Tangential Turbine 5A described in the 23/11/2022 posts.

I received the printed aluminum parts from Shapeways for Housing 5 and Cover 5 shown in the drawing of the last post. The following photos show the front and back of these parts. The design dimensions and actual printed dimensions will be shown in the next post.

The first improvement I want to try on Tangential Turbine 5 is increasing the overlap as discussed in the 21/11/2022 posts. The overlap of the nozzles in tangential turbines is maximum when the nozzle outer edge is tangent to the housing bore for the rotor. When this bore was increased on Housing 3 SD to add the gap, it moved the outer edge of the nozzle away from the housing bore decreasing the overlap (a) from 0.125” to the existing 0.114” shown on the following Tangential Turbine 5 drawing. I thought that this decrease in overlap would reduce the performance with low energy levels, so I ran tests before and after the bore size was increased as discussed in the 24/05/2021 Posts. These tests and those I have made with the axial turbines all show the distance from the nozzle to the rotor should be kept as small as possible for low energy levels. Making a new housing with a smaller bore will reduce the distance from the nozzle to the rotor and increase the overlap. This change should improve the performance of Tangential Turbine 5 at low energy levels. Housing 3 SC Gap will still be the best for high energy levels. The new housing should also be designed to allow tight clearances to be used on both faces of the rotor as discussed in the 21/11/2022 posts. The next post will show the preliminary drawing for Tangential Turbine 5A that will have a new printed aluminum housing and cover to increase the overlap and allow tight clearances on both faces of the rotor.

I am going to try improving the performance of Tangential Turbine 5 based on what I found on Axial Turbine 4. One of the reasons for the improvement in efficiency changing from Cover 4 to Cover 4A was the increase in the amount of rotor blades overlapped by the nozzle opening. This distance shown as 0.135” (a) in the following Axial Turbine 4A drawing is the overlap. This distance is 0.085” (a) with Cover 4 used in Axial Turbine 4. I believe that this substantial increase in overlap was the primary reason for the improvement in efficiency made by Cover 4A. The overlap (a) is shown on the assembly drawings of each of my turbines in my albums. Another improvement of Axial Turbine 4 was using tight clearances between the rotor faces and the cover and housing. Axial Turbine 3N R2 was the next best performer using Axial Rotor 3 as shown in the following test sheet. The main difference between Axial Turbine 3N R2 shown on the next post and Axial Turbine 4A is the clearance on the rotor faces. The tight clearance on both rotor faces did increase the efficiency. I started a design for a new printed aluminum housing and covers for Tangential Turbine 5 to try to optimize it that will be discussed in the next posts.