Member postings for Jon Cameron

Hello Jason, I'm afraid I can't open those. But I am in no hurry. I'll send you my email and if you could do me the 2D drawings when you have time it would be appreciated.

Regards

Jon

Hello Jason,

Is it possible to get a copy of the drawings from you for this engine. I am looking at building a streamliner hull and would obviously like the correct type of engine to go in it too. I have found some measurements from an original boiler so hopefully I can build that also fairly close to original.

Regards

Jon

I've spent a number of days now working in the dockstader simulator, trying to improve the joy valve gear on the Clayton.

Are there any helpful hints that anyone could provide on laying out joy valve gear that may prove helpful?

So far I've found that with the straight slides the simulator simply won't process the data, and I get error messages all over. I therefore changed the slides to a radius equal to the radius rod that connects to the valve rod. Also after checking my dimensions a couple times to the drawings the crank rod needed increasing by 1/8" so that the piston would travel the full length of the cylinder. This can be achieved by changing the rear bearing to a slightly larger one and offsetting the bearing hole, therefore increasing the length of the connecting rod. I believe this error has crept into the drawing as the rear cylinder cover width (1/8" has not been included when the valve gear was schemed out by Dyer.

These dimensions I've checked twice against the drawings, and I'm surprised that any clayton wagon is running. I'd be interested to hear from builders of the Clayton if they found this error or worked around it somehow?

By changing the above dimensions, resulted in the valve having a cut off in forward gear of 54.6% front port and 99% rear port, and in reverse the front steam port not having any access to steam inlet and the rear 97%. Also that the valve would overshoot the valve chest wall by a small margin. Therefore I have reduced the valve stem centre to centre length to 3.825" instead of the 3.975" as shown on the drawings.

This has shown a great improvement in the simulations I've run, even allowing for expansion of the steam which the joy gear is supposed to be so great for. Comparison with the above changes are as follows;

Forward gear;

Front steam port 82% cut off

Rear steam port 87% cut off

Reverse gear

Front steam port 89.1% cut off

Rear steam port 90.5% cut off

Notched up a little to midway between full forward and centre position

Forward gear

Front steam port 48.7%

Rear steam port 59.9%

Reverse Gear

Front steam port 52%

Rear steam port 73%

Still a long way to go but vast improvements.

Any help and input would be appreciated.

Jon

Hello,

I did a deal with a friend the other week, and I came away the owner of this started clayton wagon. The rust on the chassis is superficial, and overall its quite a nicely built wagon so far. With only minor things that aren't quite as the articles by Dyer.

I've started to strip the chassis down and I've removed the axle assemblies as complete units, so I can better paint and remove the rust on the chassis and components. A couple of different wire brushes, and some emery cloth had the steel frame back to bare metal and minus the rust. So that painting could begin.

While the red oxide paint was curing my attention turned to the rear axle assembly, I want to build a cover to eliminate muck and stray fingers from entering the diff. So this needed stripping down not only to paint but to allow access for measuring, to size the diff. On stripping down I made a discovery, the rear wheels bores and axles are actually tapered to ensure a good fit. I must say I was quite impressed with this mod, and it's execution. The axle will be measured painted then a diff cover made to bolt onto the rear of the gears on the axles. Which should keep most muck from entering and also allow oil to be squirted into the diff assembly. I'm wondering whether to clean up the wheel castings before paint, they are quite rough castings. Especially on the spoked areas. 

The axle bearings themselves though seem to have been messed up a little and soldered to the required size, these may be removed and new ones made up as currently there is no way to get oil inside the axle assembly. Alternatively they are free turning on the axle, so may just drill through the rear of the axle blocks to the bearings, and leave them in place, renewing them when needed when the axle bearings wear out. Suggestions on a postcard please.

Edited By Jon Cameron on 26/02/2023 16:44:32

John Beresford, JohnS,

Hi, I've just joined the TLRS, and ordered the book you mention. So I hope to start next month building something if all goes well.

I have seen Ashley bests articles, I agree, there really good and in depth.RI shall post on my progress over the next year.

Regards

Jon

Lovely trams, I've been looking at building one myself. So I'm gathering some photos and info currently.

Also very interesting the winding machine for the motors. I think it's great someone prooving the impossible can be done with a little thought.

Jon

Nigel,

Thank you for the thougher reply.

I worked out what space I had to play with scaled downfrom the full size engine, and then worked out the inners. Starting from the boiler, 4" dia tube 13swg x 11.75" long. Split for 4.5/8" along its length and opened out to make the firebox wrapper. This makes the firebox 2" deeper below the bottom of the main tube, with no extension pieces to solder on. So overall height of boiler can be anything upto 6". Grate area scales down to 12sq in. Making the outer firebox 4" x 4.5/8" with a 1/4" water space and using 13swg again for the inner wrapper of the firebox I've got the grate area to 11.718sq in.

The tubes are worked out as 3/8" x 20swg @7.3/8" length. Inside dia tube area needs to be between 1/5th and 1/6th of grate area, so this gives a figure of between 6 and 7 tubes. There are model examples of 16SWG tube been used for the main barrel at this dia. So it may be very possible to decrease this, thus making it easier to solder up, and requiring less heat, whilst also gaining a little extra water sspace.As you can see the boiler is by no means large.

It looks like there's not enough tubes, but the calculations I've done say this is correct.

Also Making it an easier loco to build is the need for only three forming plates, one for front tube plate, one for inner firebox, and one for backhead. The throatplate been able to use the latter too. No extension pieces for the firebox.

The firebox top stays will have some metal removed to allow water circulation across the top of the firebox.

Biggest issue I see is the absence of a dome and priming. However been so small I was wanting to work out the steam output and use that to design the cylinder block, which itself is only small cylinders for a 5" engine. I believe these may have to be increased in dia from scale size, to increase the swept volume.

The boiler would be for a NER Y7. Using Joy valve gear, and twin cylinder block between the frames. Wheels are 3.7/8" dia.

If any of this information is at all helpful for any possible calculation.

Regards

Jon

Hello,

Can someone point me to a formula for calculating max steam output from a boiler please?

I am drafting a boiler design but want to match it to the cylinders, to make sure the boiler could keep up.

Regards

Jon

Hello,

The 3" Suffolk dredging tractor designed by John Haining

Am I correct or mistaken that there was a copper boiler drawing published for this engine, or was there only the steel version printed?

Just been reading over the articles and can't remember.

Regards

Jon

Thanks Bill I'll check that out.

Regards

Jon

Thanks,

Funny how things distract you lol. I'm the same. But having seen two examples of the 1/16" version , in the last two months. I am thinking a 1" version would be very nice. Albeit huge.

Thanks to the others who's commented. All helps.

Regards

Jon

Did anything come of this request for information? I only ask as the info posted by the other members have been very helpful. I have for a couple of years wanted to build one and thought I'd browse for information on existing gallopers. I'd like to make a steam powered one if anyone has any good images of the savage power plant. Or dimensions of the full size plant. The lack of reversing gear is a bonus as they only rotate one direction.

Cheers

Jon

Hello Chris,

I'll post info here as well as on the MECH forum. I have found a completed and running model, I haven't shared pictures of it as I'm not sure if hes happy for me to do so. But I'll ask permission and share if he's happy for me to do so.

The main issue is the firebox forming a structural part of the frames. This means there is no allowance for expansion in the boiler, thus the front of the boiler expands forward, this then causes alignment issues with steam pipes, hence the curled pipes shown in the articles. Also with the blast nozzle that doesn't align with the chimney base.

The solution to all these is rather simple albeit a deviation from the prototype. Extend the steel frame plate that the boiler is suppose to bolt to. So it is wide enough to clear the sides of the firebox (5.1/4" wide). Then 3/16" frames bolted or brazed to support the firebox (copper or bronze angle riveted and brazed to sides of boiler) tied together at the rear with a 1/2x3/4" drag beam bolted up.

The boiler then has room to expand rearward, pipes don't need to be flexible, and can be fixed.

There is an issue with the valve spindle not aligning but there's again a simple fix. But making from scratch id be tempted to increase the valvechest size and move the spindle so it aligns.

Really it should have a proper lubricator on it rather than the hydrostatic one, which apparently runs out very quick so don't bother with this. A larger one of 2" dia can be fitted under the footplate, or an alternative for the lubricator to be fed from an eccentric somewhere onthe loco, (ie not sure yet).

These are all points to get you started.

Regards

Jon

Hi Bill,

Yes I had meant to message you yesterday regarding making contact with a guy whos built one.

Wheels will be ordered Friday and then the fun begins.

Meanwhile I'm giving my ml4 a tune up, before they arrive so I can get to with machining them. Including aligning the tailstock properly which is a real pain!

Regards

Jon

Hi Bill,

I've searched on the MECH forum and came up with nothing. Can you enlighten me as to what is flawed in the design please? Or where this is documented? As I've found very little info.

Ill put a post on the MECH forum and see what is said.

Regards

Jon

Hello,

Im hoping one of you may be able to help. Been a keen narrow gauge railway fan, I've been looking at George as a build, designed by Don Young in LLAS. I have all but drawing sheet four in the magazines. Though this has now been sorted and I have the remaining drawing.

My question, is there any of these locos ever been finished. As despite searching the Internet, I've yet to come across a running example. There are three or four partially built ones that I've found. (One of these is the example shown in the article text). But I've never seen one running, so it begs the question is it a flawed design somehow?

Now a lot of what I've read on Don Young suggests that he was an excellent designer, so I doubt my last statement can be true. So let's see a show of hands for anyone that has seen one running. Any other thoughts or ideas also welcome.

Regards

Jon

My apologies Julian, got your surname wrong.

Jon

Personally I think doing the flat face boring, drilling and tapping of that side that will eventually face the chuck, is a better way of doing it. To give yourself the most surface area for holding, to then drill and tap/bore for the tailstock arbour. It also means that the part is already in position to maintain the centre tapped hole in line with the axis of the lathe. Also the plunger hole can be drilled at the same angle by simply setting over the cross slide.

The top part then can be made, and indexed and drilled for the plunger indent, bolted together then the sockets drilled and reamed for the tooling. Using the fully assembled part mounted in the tailstock and the drill and reamer mounted in the spindle. Perfect alignment is then ensured with the indexed position and the spindle axis.

Plenty of different ways to do it.

Jon

Edited By Jon Cameron on 05/02/2021 10:25:33

Actually, engage brain.... do that in reverse. Mount raw casting on faceplate to bore and drill through the rotating piece first. Use plenty of packing. Once all these operations are done mount the angleplate loosely on the cross slide, put a piece of paper between the machined surface and the angle plate. Then poke a long bolt that you pre made into the casting to secure it to the angleplate. Make sure the angleplate is nipped fixer tight on the teenuts. Rotate the chuck so that the arbour spigot is on centreheight of the lathe. Then fully tighten the bolt through into the casting. The faceplate can now be turned on the cross slide, and clocked into the required angle. Then a simple matter of drilling and tapping for the arbour. Or you could transfer the angle plate to the faceplate, if the spigot is directed facing directly up so when mounted to the faceplate the spigot is in line with the axis of the lathe. An engineers square on the cross slide may help this setup.

Jon

Get your angleplate out, bolt the casting to the angle plate securely. Set the angle plate on the cross slide at the correct angle. Clock it in with a DTI mounted to the bed over a set distance or angle gauges and set the angleplate up against the faceplate with the gauge between the faces, before clamping down. Use a boring tool in the spindle. Drill and tap the hole with a drill chuck in the spindle. For next operation if you set it up right you'll simply need to turn and clock the angle plate in line with the axis of the lathe. Then drill and tap the hole for the arbour. If I'm looking at it correctly that is??

Just seen a fully built one of these for sale, is it a hemmingway kit?

Jon