Member postings for W J Hall

As someone who was at school before metric became standard I have never really mastered cms, despite doing O-Level early enough to encounter CGS. For ordinary life I tend to think of things either in imperial, or, after a career in engineering, in mm. However, I did measure something in cm today, so there is hope yet.

Although it is a very sensible system there is a problem with the metric multiplier abbreviations. It is all very well laughing at the press when they write mg for micrograms, or use the everyday m for million where M might have been better, but really, who thought a system with three multipliers with vastly different values, all, abbreviated to various forms of 'm' was practical?

Not with a bang but a whimper...

In the end I followed the instructions on the council website, and took it to the depot, pointed out that it was very dangerous, booked it in with no more than slightly raised eyebrows, and they put it in the chemical vault.

In some ways I am surprised, for over a decade councils have been reducing the amount of waste they will take without charge. But as has been pointed out, it is probably less trouble for them to collect it, or accept it, than have it turning up all over the place. Also, I suppose that any item that has not already become an incident requiring the fire brigade is likely to be safe for trained personnel to take away.

I was a little concerned that hazardous waste handling at the council tip seemed to rely overmuch on whether things had hazard symbols or not, which older materials may not. But they did seem to work on a suspicion principle, I was asked what a tiny antique tin marked 'gold size' contained. Since according to Wikipedia size is 'any one of numerous specific substances', that may be a question without an answer.

The tip concerned seemed to have more staff than Bristol's Avonmouth tip, taking a more active role in dealing with the waste, in fact remarkably helpful. Bristol's hazardous waste section speaks only of Asbestos, Fluorescent tubes and paints and specifically says that they do not collect chemicals. I doubt if 'household chemicals' covers HF.

The cheapest quote for collection was from PHS Atherstone, at 185 pounds, ex. VAT for 'collection when in area'.

Other quotes were 250 and 350 pounds. It was obvious that collecting odd bottles of HF is not part of anybody's routine business, nobody read off a standard price list, they all had to make a formal quote..

So thank you to everyone who contributed suggestions. Even those that were pointing out something that I had already considered were a useful prod to looking at it again.

John Hall

Interesting discussion with Véolia. They thought that the council should take it and actually phoned the council to say so, unfortunately without succeeding in contacting the right person. Their suggestion was then just to take it round and hand it in at the tip. In fact the council website does say that all their tips will take up to 5 litres of chemicals, preferably in original packaging, and with completion of a descriptive form. Nevertheless the council have repeated to my sister that they do not take it.

Another contractor asked for a photo of the packaging and label, which I have had done. I should have thought of that as soon as I found it. We are beginning to develop a long lasting relationship with this bottle, it risks becoming a family heirloom.

When I mentioned to my wife that the photos confirmed that I had not misread a hydrochloric label, she replied that conc HCl is also quite nasty, due to the fumes given off when you open it, although probably not as nasty and insidious as HF's ability to seep through your skin and consume the calcium in your bloodstream.

John

In response to some of the further points:

I think my father may have intended to etch some glassware, but there is no evidence that he actually did so. My mother will only become aware that she owns a bottle of hydrofluoric when my sister presents the winning bid to her for payment.

It probably does come from a couple of decades back, when these things were indeed treated with more abandon.

I tried the wastecare online form a couple of days ago, without result, but with the recommendation (thank you) I have now phoned them, and they sounded the most organised so far, but until the quote comes in a couple of days I cannot know what the real outcome will be. Unfortunately collection of HF from domestic premises is a rather rare requirement, so I have not yet found anyone who can just read off a standard price list.

It is probably in transport packaging, but I do not wish to transport it.

Stonemason's apparently use it, which may be more widespread than some of the other industries, but the stuff sells at about GBP 20 / litre, so it is not going to be worth anyone going more than a mile to fetch.

Strange to say, my wife told me yesterday that her first job, back in the 70s, was research into using HF as a way of making through holes in multi-layer PCBs. I must ask her if they kept calcium gel to hand. However, she is not suffering from a nostalgic wish to meet HF again, and will probably stay south of Gloucester until it has been dealt with.

John

I read the label three times, the last time for the specific purpose of checking that I had not misread it. I will let you know what happens. I expect to be quite safe, because I am now in Bristol and the bottle is in Goole.

I had assumed that with the thing being of unknown age, even if it is in a BDH bottle they would not be relevant, but I have now phoned them and they are looking into it. (Like all the other companies I have contacted.) So thanks for reminding me of the possibility.

John

Council were my first thought, and they do not take it. Thank you for the Fire Brigade suggestion. They are horrified at the prospect of having anything to do with it, but have named a couple of companies in the area that they have used themselves.

John

I assume it is a plastic bottle. It has the manufacturer's original label, and I read it three times to make sure I had not misunderstood what it said.

John

Yes, I have should not have offered it with the casual assumption that people who might want it would know what it was, and be used to dealing with it. I apologise for this carelessness.

If Neil's description is not enough, there are plenty of graphic descriptions of injuries on the web.

John Hall

In the course of clearing my mother’s garage I have found a bottle containing about 700 ml of hydrofluoric acid, fortunately in original manufacturer’s packaging and probably never opened.

Can anyone recommend a disposal company that is likely to be able to collect in Yorkshire for a reasonable cost? I assume we are looking for a company that does a regular round of small businesses.

Alternatively, does anyone in Yorkshire want 700 ml of 48 % hydrofluoric acid? Free for collection.

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2015 11:14:36