Member postings for Zebethyal

Whilst I applaud the development of the Arduino, and accept that the original designer has made very little from the project due to clones, (if you don't want your design copied - don't make it open hardware) the Uno, Duemilanove, Mega boards all use a non standard spacing that perpetuates the use of shields, which are often highly overpriced for what they actually offer.

The removal of the FTDI chip in favour of the CH340G, for USB programming, dramatically reduced the cost of the clones.

I only have a couple of Arduino Uno clones, preferring the smaller size of the Pro Mini (£13.33 for 10 from China), or Nano which includes a micro USB connection (£17.20 for 10 from China), these both use standard breadboard spacing.

I also buy suitable through hole chips with the required number of pins direct from RS (ATtiny, ATmega168p, ATmega644p, ATmega1248p), as they actually seem to be the cheapest, all of which can be programmed via the Arduino IDE and the one off purchase of a programmer, although these are actually many times the price of the above Mini or Nano alternatives.

The 8, 14, 20pin ATtiny and 40 pin ATmega chips can also be programmed via the IDE with a little tweaking of the configuration files (ATtiny chips can also be bought in SMD form on breadboard compatible boards for pennies from China).

For those interested in PIC development, don't forget that Microchip offers a free sample service for much of their range - I have yet to actually pay for any of my PIC microcontrollers and clone PicKit programmers from the Bay also work just fine..

The a4988 is currently £0.99 for one or £8.25 for 10 on the Bay with free P&P from China/Hong Kong, the first set of these I bought cost me nearly £8.00 each back in 2011.

Arduino compatible 4 axis shields for the a4988 drivers are also available for £1.53 with free P&P (search for CNC shield on the Bay) these are clones of the Protoneer board.

I have also built stepper drivers using the Toshiba 6560AHQ chip, using the PMinMO design - 36V and 3A capable with the right resistors, total cost was under £5.00 per driver.

Mine started off as an Axminster SX2, so it already had the belt drive, ideally I wanted the solid column HiTorque Mini Mill (3960) from LittleMachineShop, but nobody sells it over here, so started with a suitable alternative that was on special at the time due to a paint colour change over at Axminster.

Here are some of the enhancements I have made to mine:

• MT3 to R8 spindle swap - details
• Igaging digital scales - details
• Gas strut to replace spring - details
• Solid column conversion - details
• Yuriy's DRO with Igaging scales - details

I am currently using it to make the parts for its own CNC conversion.

I also now have enough spare parts to make an X2 Freak like Hoss should the mood take me

I also climb mill on my X2, my roughing passes alternate between conventional and climb milling, with a climb finish pass.

Edited By Zebethyal on 23/11/2016 10:09:28

I am also fine with the idea of replacing the light fitting itself with a new LED one, but if the LED unit is significantly more expensive, I am still not going to see any savings any time soon.

For my scenario, a like for like replacement would be with a 2 foot LED batten which costs around £18.00, so about the same cost as a pair of replacement tubes, or £3.00 more expensive than my current setup as new and at 20W, it is still a little over half the cost to run. If I was installing from scratch, I am still looking at nearly 200 days of 8 hours a day usage to claw back the difference, or again 3 years of 8 hour days to claw back the replacement costs.

The notion that LEDs don't fail, or fail less often is not what your average home user sees, I can't comment on industrial quality lighting, but at the consumer quality level, LEDs don't even seem to last as long as non LED and are often many times the price, making them somewhat of a false economy.

I am all for energy saving lighting, but when the maths don't add up, I fail to see the point. Once the products available actually start living up to the manufacturer claims with regards to lifespan, maybe it will make more sense.

This type of indicator holder attaches around the spindle, so does not need fitting in a chuck, uses minimal headroom and is very adjustable:

They are a copy of one of the Noga mounts that Tom Lipton regularly uses in his youtube videos.

I bought one from the Bay for about £8.00 last year.

Edited By Zebethyal on 22/11/2016 12:23:27

When I wired up my garage I installed 10 x 2 foot IP65 dual fluorescent fittings, wired in 3 banks on separate switches, these take 2 x T8 18W fluorescent tubes that cost me £1.49 ex VAT each at Selco, I could probably get the tubes even cheaper if I really tried.

I installed them nearly 3 years ago and have yet to have one fail, even with regularly leaving them on all day, they have an electronic ballast that lights them immediately - no buzzing or visible flicker.

I did consider LED tubes, but when a single LED tube costs more than 6 of the fluorescent tubes - cheapest price I have found is £7.70 each, with some over £18.00, the fittings only cost 11.35 each new, the LED tubes give just half of the energy saving - 9W vs 18W.

If I left all 20 tubes on for 8 hours a day, the cost for 360W at 11.2p per kWh would be 32.25p per day, so with the LED tubes and a saving of 16.12p a day, it would take me 3 years at 8 hours every day of the year usage to claw back the cost (assuming they last that long - nearly 9000 hours).

With my average usage of closer to 8 hours a week, and usually only 12 tubes on at a time, it would take decades - I think i will stick to the cheap fluorescents that are still going strong.

Edited By Zebethyal on 22/11/2016 11:45:27

My wooden workshop bench is based on Steve Ramsey's design over at WoodWorking for Mere Mortals

Details of my workbench build are here, all made from 2x4 PAR timber. Legs are 4x4, 2 x 2x4s glued and screwed, the end braces are also glued and screwed, the side braces are coach bolted through the entire leg, then 2 layers of 18mm marine ply glued and screwed for the worktop.

It was built in-situ around the compressor and probably weighs nearly as much as a metal Myford stand - it does'nt move

Edited By Zebethyal on 22/11/2016 10:13:25

This is what I did:

RCBO at the house consumer unit, 4mm Twin & earth inside the house, 4mm 3 core SWA outside.

Third core and armour both used as earth, armour connected to earth via banjos at each end of the SWA in junction box and in garage consumer unit.

SWA is further protected outside by being run inside 41mm Unistrut secured to the concrete fence posts using rawl bolts.

Inside garage, RCD protected consumer unit with one circuit for lights and one for sockets, I may look into an RCCB for the lighting circuit at some point.

Sockets are on a 4mm radial circuit using individual cables run plastic conduit and dado trunking so I can have as many sockets as I need.

Lighting is cabled using individual 1.5mm individual cables in plastic conduit, 1mm would have been good enough, but I didn't have any at the time.

Some may argue issues with SWA in Unistrut above ground attached to a fence, but the garage is prefab and therefore can be argued to be temporary, fences are also viewed as temporary structures so the associated wiring is also temporary and would be removed with the garage.

Nothing in the regulations that states you can't do this and much safer and less likely to be damaged than running on a caternary wire at 12 feet above ground and I didn't feel like digging a 3 foot deep trench through tree roots.

House can't trip the garage, but isolator in house consumer unit will cut power to garage, house is on a split load consumer unit with dual RCDs, garage can also be isolated by switching off the RCBO.

8 piece sets available as:

• Laser part number 6058 on UK Ebay for around £18.00
• Snap-On / Blue Point part number TDL8 for around £70.00

I agree with you entirely, and those are the ones I use, albeit from a far eastern source - the picture was an example to show the limited space.

With SmoothStepper being available from a number of UK sources, including some on the right hand side of the board, I would say that unfortunately this is another point against LinuxCNC.

Looks like if I decide on the MESA route it will be another holiday purchase to bring back in the suitcase, if I can acutally find some one with stock

@Rod,

Don't forget that without the 69.00 Euro license fee Nigel is restricted to 25 lines of Gcode.

@sam

You say that 5i25/7i76 is an over the top combination and go on to mention that a 7i92 is all that you need, yet this is the combination most mentioned anywhere I look for information on what Mesa boards to use.

I have re-read the description and manual of the 7i92 and yes, it would appear that it can be used stand-alone parallel port replacement - it would still need some form of breakout board even if it is a basic $4.00 Chinese one, since most home-brew conversions aren't parallel port ready

This also re-affirms my earlier point about it being difficult for someone new to work out what Mesa cards they need - no guidance on Mesa's own site, the LinuxCNC Wiki is amazingly vague on the subject, merely mentioning a large number of possibilities that should work and doesn't even mention the 7i92 card!

If I specifically search for the 7i92 card, I see very few posts about it, and many of those I do find are from the LinuxCNC forum which seem to be cries for help with using one - hardly a great advert.

To buy one I would need to order from the US, not necessarily an issue, but Mesa quote 6-8 week lead times, EUsurplus have no stock, and I have yet to find a UK supplier.

I like the idea of this board in that it de-couples from the required PC, making some form of laptop more of an option, or a mini PC that can fit behind the monitor.

One thing I am not so keen on with the Mesa breakout boards is that their screw terminals are too close to each other to use crimped ferrules, and pretty awful from a strain relief point of view - 90 degree plug in screw terminals would be a better option in that regard.

Edited By Zebethyal on 07/10/2016 09:33:53

I agree that the board has additional connectors, but that is merely bringing out the relevant pins from the microcontroller to a header that were ignored on the cheaper board - PCB price difference negligable, additional headers, etc, again negligable since the 4 axis board actually has 2 different sets of header connections for both IDC ribbon and individual wire screw terminals.

Edited By Zebethyal on 05/10/2016 12:24:18

> 2) The Mesa boards seem to be about half the price of the Mach-3/4 based solutions;

I am not really seeing how the LinuxCNC + Mesa solution is half the price of a Mach 3 + Smooth Stepper solution.

Both require a PC of some sort, both will require steppers, stepper drivers, etc, so we will ignore all of that.

For LinuxCNC + Mesa, a base setup would be something like: 5i25/7i76 plug and go - $199.00 + shipping

(Trying to locate what Mesa hardware you actually need is a mission in itself! - the Mesa website offers little help in this regard, plus they claim a 6-8 week lead time from placing an order)

For Mach3 and Smooth Stepper: SmoothStepper $165.00, terminal board $29.55 + shipping

So from a hardware point of view there is nothing in it.

From a software point of view, LinuxCNC is free and Mach3 is $175.00 from ArtSoft (various discounted prices exist all over the web), although not everyone pays for a genuine license and many hacked copies exist (I am not advocating the use of hacked software - just stating what is available if you care to look), so yes, you can argue additional cost here, but not a particularly strong argument. for 50% cheaper from the home cheapskate point of view.

The Mk3 and Mk3/4 USBCNC boards also appear to use the same chip and mostly the same board layout, so you are effectively just paying to unlock the additional functionality in the software.

The Sky Studio MK1 has a few enhancements over the original MK1 and other 'clones' including optocouplers, separate power supplies, additional regulators and transient voltage suppression, but the same microcontroller, memory and pinout restrictions.

There appear to be several different entry points into usbcnc:

• Mk3 9 axis board @ 219 Euros + VAT (about £240 shipped)
• Mk3/4 4 axis board @ 119 Euros + VAT (about £135 shipped)
• MK1 DIY PCB + PIC @ 21 Euros + VAT (about £32 shipped + supply your own components)
• MK1 Sky Studio MK1 version £42.29 (pennybuying.com)
• MK1 Chinese 'clone' @ £13-18 (ebay)

All of these options require a USB controller license (per board) from Planet CNC @ 69 Euros + VAT (about £73) or you are limited to 25 lines of Gcode, the software itself is free.

All of thes options will also require a PC/laptop/virtual machine to run the software - a cheap old laptop or netbook would probably be more than good enough based on the required PC specs.

The MK1 and Mk3/4 boards seems to give pretty much the same connectivity as a PC with a single parallel port, the MK3 board is required for anything that requires more inputs/outputs.

Many of the add-on boards look to be a little spendy - 22 Euros + VAT (about £23 + shipping) for an opto isolator, 10 or 16 pin header, DB25 connector, etc where there are less than £2.00 of parts on a board which itself would cost less than £1.00 - I don't mind paying a little for a quality item, but these prices are pushing it somewhat and the boards are easily within the realms of DIY.

A major plus is the use of an off-PC processor for the real-time processing, as previously mentioned, the PC is just a buffer for supplying Gcode and a user interface. As such they offer a similar solution/price point to Mach3 + Smooth Stepper or LinuxCNC + Mesa FPGA, with the added bonus that the hardware and software are from the same supplier and the PC specs don't really matter.

Downside is that you still need a PC an OS and an application.

Edited By Zebethyal on 04/10/2016 11:40:08

@sam

I don't think anyone is looking for a silver bullet, however, these units being discussed cut out a whole heap of steps that many simply don't want to be involved with.

The idea with one of these units is that you DON'T need to:

• obtain a PC (free or otherwise)
• install an OS (free or otherwise)
• install any applications (free or otherwise).
• buy any third party boards (Break out, Smooth Stepper, Mesa, etc)

You simply hook up your stepper drivers, PSU, etc, adjust some settings for your mill/lathe, upload some Gcode on a USB stick and off you go.

The front end takes up no more space than a DRO and looks professional - easy sell to the CNC newbie.

Don't get me wrong - I personally am doing my best to make LinuxCNC work for me, however I have the time and inclination to make it work, 20+ years in Unix based IT, plus I am a cheapskate at heart, but it is a far cry from plain sailing and I am still struggling with hardware issues - second motherboard, still doesn't like my add-on parallel card, etc.

If I was charging for my time, I would have given up on LinuxCNC months ago and bought one of the £500.00 units and have my machine up and running in no time.

I have big plans for my mini mill:

• power drawbar
• flood coolant
• mist coolant
• air blast
• ATC with carousel
• 4th Axis
• Lathe spindle option

All of this is possible with LinuxCNC, but it will be a slow and complicated path to make it all work - pretty much all of my requirements are covered out of the box by one of these units, plus much more besides.

What will I make on it - I have no idea, probably parts for other projects. For me it is all about the journey, the satisfaction of having built it and the learning experiences gained along the way, many others simply want to get on and make stuff, and for those people these units are a no-brainer.

@Paul,

For a laser controller, one of the popular DSP options is the AWC807C - I bought mine last year from SanWeiHouse on AliExpress for $283.10 (about £190.00 at the time) with free shipping via DHL to the UK. It arrived in 7 days.

It avoided customs attention because they stuck it in a battered second hand box and declared it at $10.00!

I hasten to add that at no point did I even hint at any of this subterfuge to the seller - this was all their own doing.

I bought the 'lite' version of the controller for use on my buildlog.net laser cutter, it has control for 4 axes and 2 lasers. The full version costs a bit more and has control for 6 axes and 4 lasers.

My Table is only 560x410mm, so a bit smaller than yours, and uses a 1524mm 762tooth GT2-2 belt to drive 4 lengths of M6 studding via a 3.2:1 reduction from the Z axis stepper.

It may also be possible for you to run 2 motors off the same driver using a reduction drive and a looped belt for each - I use a single StepStick driver for both Nema 17 motors on the Z axis of my 3D printer without issue.

@Sam,

I agree with what you are saying, however, you are kind of missing John's point.

Yes, you can pick up a 'scrap' PC, monitor and keyboard, install LinuxCNC or Mach3, but that all requires come computer 'savvy' that not everyone has, and even many that do, can't be bothered to spend the time and effort.

Not every PC works well with LinuxCNC, and it is a bit of a 'suck it and see' aproach to find one that gives low latency figures, older machines often being better than newer ones.

I can easily see why many people opt for Mach3 over LinuxCNC, due to more familiarity with Windows, but it still involves installing an OS, an application and configuring that application, which is not always the simplest thing in the world.

I have currently decided to go with LinuxCNC, since I have 20+ years of Unix experience, however, I would say that my journey has been far from plain sailing and many would have thrown the towel in ages ago.

The appeal of the units John is talking about is that for around £150.00, you coud have a ready made solution, hook up your steppers, drivers and PSU and off you go, for many, the time saving and simplicity alone is worth the cost.

For £400.00 you can have a commercial unit that can do pretty much anything you could ever want, tool changer, coolant, threading, etc, etc, that could take you months to configure in Mach3 or LinuxCNC, all in a unit about the size of a DRO! - I am still struggling to persuade LinuxCNC to recognise my second parallel card! The OS sees it, stepconf sees it, but you start the main app and it refuses to play - oh the joys of cobbling together a system with parts that may or may not be completely supported.

If you want more than a basic setup with Mach3, you are probably looking at a smooth stepper unit, and with LinuxCNC, Mesa boards, both of which start significantly adding to the cost and complexity of your setup, at which point an all in one box starts to look very attractive.

I would recommend the Warco DH-1 precision vice - certainly not the cheapest, but one of the most versatile.

I don't often use the rotating base, but have used all of the various jaw sets in multiple configurations.

I bought mine as a deal at a show, which included the 3 additional sets of jaws, for normal online price of the vice.

Some might argue it is a bit big for my Sieg X2, but it should be fine on your Sharp.

I also use TouchDRO, and opted to use shielded USB cables as recommended on Yuriy's site.

Beforehand, when I was using the original Igaging remote displays attached to the front of the mill, the interference from the motor would randomly reset one or more of the displays - not ideal in the middle of a machining operation.

I built my own board and used an ATtiny85, the older Arduino firmware and a bluetooth module along with a cheap 10.1" Android tablet as a dedicated display (details here and here), it is working fine for me whilst I use it on my mill to make the parts for its own CNC conversion.