Member postings for Dan Jones

Hi Bob,

I'm coming to the end of my Juliet build now and initially started building my boiler until a cheap commercial one became available on a well known auction site.

As far as I am aware there is no specific plan for a tube construction boiler, because you don't need one. Neil is right, the original boiler build articles (not the oil fired type of course) published by LBSC in ME is all you need and I too am sure he covers the tube type construction briefly in those notes.

In truth, the tube type boiler is exactly the same as if it was made from sheet.

As long as the boiler tube is 3 1/2" O/D x 12 1/4" long in 16-gauge copper, you will have sufficient material to do the job. The firebox wrapper is cut 4 3/4" from one end and is split off centre by 3/16" (I think that's what the offset is?).

If you look at my Juliet build album, you can see what I've done with my boiler. It's a very forgiving beginners boiler really.

If you need a set of online build articles then you can get these off the John Tom website of just PM me and I'll send you the PDF.

Hope this helps!

Dan.

It's been a long time since the last post so here's an update!

The workshop has been pretty busy and I've got myself little bits of Juliet strewn all over the place.  I've taken plenty of pictures this morning (poor quality from my phone, apologies in advance), so go and take a look at those!

To start with, the boiler I picked up from ebay is stamped with Reg Chambers markings which means I got away with a neat bargain for myself. Only 3 jobs have needed doing on it- Drilling the holes for the clack valve bushes; drilling and tapping the holes for the other boiler attachments (top water glass socket, fire box door and latch clip); and plugging and re drilling/tapping the holes on the PCD for the dome as they're unevenly spaced and don't match the dome I've made.

Secondly, I've finished making all the cab fittings (regulator boss, blower valve arrangement, water gauge fittings, by-pass valve for the side tank and firebox door assembly). The boiler came with a steam turret, blow down valve and safety valve so I haven't had to make those (although the safety valve seems a touch too small so I might have to do that).

I have been looking around and there seems to be great discussion with regards to the regulator for this size engine. The specified type is the disc in a tube sort but many say a screw down is better practically and is easy to make and assemble- so that's what I'm making. I should have looked harder online to find a drawing of one before I started to design and make my own. I found a decent drawing of the regulator for Rob Roy, which would have suited my needs perfectly but never mind. I know that a course thread is required for the job so I scavenged for a fair few hours in my scrap pile until I came out with a regulation valve for a tumble dryer or something? It's a stainless spindle, course thread and has a threaded barrel so I'm using that. The end of the spindle has a square boss so attaching it to a rod through to the cab should be easy and without slip like you might get with a grub screw and collar.

I've also made the smoke box saddle. It's made of two pieces of angle steel and two pieces of plate steel riveted and soldered together. If you look at my Juliet album and go to the bottom of the page you'll see what I mean, the picture describes it better than I can.

The most recent piece of work I've been doing is the side tanks. These are a lot trickier to make if you haven't done them before and a poor drawing is given for them. I have made them in two pieces, all connecting plates are flanged and the corners are silver soldered. The large gaps at each end are going to have a plate silver soldered over them and then get caulked. I don't intend to silver solder the tanks together as I want to be able to take them apart for maintenance in the future. Also, the way I've made the hand pump would make it impossible to assemble.  Again look at the host of pictures I've just put in the album, they'll help convey the work done.

It's all coming together very quickly now and will be ready for a hydraulic test on the boiler soon. If that goes well and it passes its steam test then I could be on the rails by the end of summer!

Thanks,

Dan.

Edited By Dan Jones on 17/05/2015 18:19:11

I've got a 3" Plastow Burrell and I'm having consistent failure with the cylinder drain cocks.

I bought the engine part built and in the set of bits were some drain cocks so initially I installed those but they didn't last long, they just kept clogging up and leaking. So in a rush I made some new cocks of the same type with a slightly larger hole through the middle in the hope they wouldn't clog. These cocks worked averagely for a time but now just aren't worth bothering with.

Does anyone have a 3" scale engine with well working drain cocks?

If so, could you let me know where you got them or if there's a drawing available if you made them?

Dan

Hi guys,

I'm starting to make some boiler fittings for the Juliet. I want to make the water glass first but the question that sprung to mind straight away is glass size. The drawing says that the glass should be 3/16" in diameter. Is this size glass suitable for the engine? Is that size glass still available?

Thanks,

Dan.

Just a quick update on the 10H.

The box bed has had the top and bottom surfaces machined, all that needs to be done now is to drill the holes in the feet.

My plan of action was to then machine the soleplate but the casting was unfit for use, so whilst I waited for the new one to be delivered (Free of charge from Stuart Models- no fuss, just a quick picture as proof!), I started to machine the cylinder which would be next on the to-do list.

So far, the cylinder has been faced to length, bored to size and had the valve face machined. The next job is to machine the steam recesses and the passage ways. The way I think I'm going to do this is fix the cylinder to and adjustable angle plate on the milling table, set it to 90 degrees, and mill the recess. Then adjust the angle plate 25 degrees from 90 and drill through the passage. Is this a good way of doing the job or is there a more common practice?

Thanks,

Dan.

I have a mouse (although from the amount of mess it's making I wouldn't be surprised if it was a family), in my shed where I keep my 3" Burrell. Ideal place really because the shed is used as a proper garden shed with warm soft fluffy things and plenty to eat (bird food seems to be a favourite, especially peanuts!).

I decided that after a little incident concerning my Burrell and the mouse, a trap should be put down. I did this on Saturday morning. When I checked the trap this afternoon, the thing had disappeared off the face of the earth! Nobody seems to know where it's gone so I can only assume the mouse/mice has run off with it!

Here's what that mouse did!....

The engine is stored with the chimney off and stood up behind the rear wheel, and a couple of long towels over the top of the motion. The mice get on the engine, run over the top of the towels with the bird feed in their mouth and drop it through the chimney saddle into the smoke box! Also, they had managed the pick up the remainder of the coal from the tender and drop it down the chimney, along with some bird feed mixed in!

Dan.

Hi guys,

What's the best way of holding the box bed in the vice on the mill. The mill in question is an XYZ 1500 with an XYZ parallel flat jaw vice. Is it best to hold the box bed along its length; along the width where the two feet are; or strap it to the bed of the mill? The long sides of the box bed are tapered up so would the vice push it out of the jaws when clamped?

Thanks,

Dan.

Jason,

Would I be able to ream the guide or is it best to bore?

Dan.

Hi guys,

I got myself a set of 10H castings as a little college project as I've finished all my work 5/6 months early. I've already done a 10V but the 10H is in my opinion a much nicer looking engine.

I've looked online and can't seem to find anything about machining the trunk guide for the cross head. I have a few possible ideas on how to do it but I hope someone on here who might have made one knows one of the best ways to do the job.

Thanks,

Dan.

Thanks for that Neil, I'll get on and file it down to size today.

Thanks,

Dan.

Happy new year everyone!

I've been making the locking bar for the smoke box door today and found the drawing for this a bit strange. The semi-circular end of the dart is shown to have a 3/8" diameter but the size of the gap in the locking bar is shown to be 3/16". How is the locking arrangement supposed to work if the method described is in place?

Thanks,

Dan.

UPDATE!

The smoke box door has been drilled and the hinges attached. The smoke box dart and handles have also been made along with a brass spacer. The smoke box ring was made from a pulley wheel from a land rover engine and is ready to be spot soldered into the smoke box and have the hinge lugs and smoke box saddle drilled and fitted.

I have been to see a relatively local boiler maker and have been given several useful pieces of advice.

Firstly, he informed me that I should shave some material off of the flanges on the boiler plates. The drawings say that the flanges should be 5/16". I assume the reason he said this is so that you can be sure that the solder creates a full joint in the flange.

Secondly, he told me to fit the tubes to the firebox tube plate and use the smoke box tube plate to keep the tubes spaced correctly at the other end. Further to this, he said to solder the tubes into the firebox tube plate whilst the tubes are in a vertical position. In order to do this, he said to make a vertical clamp stand to hold the tubes square to the tube plate.

Thirdly, he said to fit bushes at every single point where a fitting enters the boiler. So the back head fittings- water glass (top and bottom), long stays, blow down valve, fire hole door hinge fittings, regulator; smoke box tube plate fittings- wet header, long stays; other boiler fittings- clack valves, steam turret, safety valve, inner dome. Of course Curly included a majority of the bushes in the design.

Now I have a couple of questions that I didn't ask and I should have upon reflection:

The clips that hold the boiler to the frames at the bottom of the firebox: Do most people use these to fix their boiler or is there a better way of fixing the boiler? Also, the drawing shows that the clips are screwed into the outer firebox shell. If I was to do this, I would surely need to make bushes here also? Instead of screwing the clips into the firebox, could I just solder them straight on?

The stays are shown as being three lines of five across the length of the firebox. However, the angle at which the stays enter the boiler isn't shown, as well as how the stays attach to the inside of the firebox. I assume that the stays enter the boiler parallel to each other, but are the threaded with a nut and then soldered inside the firebox or are they knocked over and soldered etc?

Also, how are the long stays fitted to the back head and to the smoke box tube plate? I have a rough idea of how it works but it isn't described in the build articles or shown on the drawings so I have no idea as to the size of threads etc that I should be using.

Thanks,

Dan.

Hi Ian,

The engine is a Stuart Turner S.V. Part of the "PROGRESS" range from the late 30s - early 40s. Sold as a set of castings for people with the use of a small lathe.

Dan.

Here's what I've been up to over the past 10 days.

First job was to machine up the smoke box material. Now, I only have a small Myford ML7 but it usually deals with most materials pretty well, however the pipe collar that I am using as a smoke box was a terrible material to work with. When boring out, I only had to remove the threads inside the collar plus a little extra to gain the fit I needed. The job took around a day and a half to complete. The material was so hard that when boring out, the further in the tool went, the more of a taper it turned- A taper that wasn't wanted. This doesn't really matter though, as long as the boiler end of the smoke box is the right diameter for a length of around 3/16"-1/4", which I eventually achieved.

I also turned the lip on the inside of the smoke box to take the smoke box ring. This means I don't have to flange any material for a smoke box ring, I just need a disc with a hole in the middle. The lip I turned was 3/16" into the smoke box and opened internal diameter by 1/8" (1/16" each side).

I did have a disc of steel 3/16" thick to turn into a smoke box ring, however this is stupidly hard stuff and it has flattened my turning tool so I've given up on that. I'm now in the process of looking for a new piece of material to do the job.

Today I decided to make the smoke box door. The drawing shows it as being a curved disc 3" diameter. So I looked for curved material and came across the top of a fridge compressor case. So I scribed a circle around the most central point I could find, got out the angle grinder and cut a square section out around the circle I drew. I then used the hacksaw and a very coarse file to get the shape I needed. It has a few dents on the outside surface, so I will polyfiller that and rub it down before painting. It's now ready for drilling centrally and having the hinges fitted.

I also decided to cut out the throat plate, so now that is ready to be riveted and silver soldered in place. I want to get the boiler done before September is through, as my apprenticeship will get into full flow and i'll have less time to tinker. After the boiler is done and tested, it's all easy stuff from there.

Pictures will be added to the album shortly.

Thanks,

Dan.

Hi guys,

Today I ventured into the local industrial estate and I think I came up trumps with a piece of material. I went into a plumbing suppliers and came out with a thick walled tube connector/collar. It's the sort of thing used to join to sections of pipe together. It's threaded all the way through and has a chamfer on both ends to help locate the pipe it's supposed to connect to.

My plan is to get it in the lathe and bore it out the right size to fit the boiler. On what will be the front end, I'm going to turn a lip on the inside to take a disc of steel about 1/8" thick which will act as my smoke box door ring. This could be a press fit into the smoke box or I could silver solder it.

The material is pretty ideal for the job as it's supposed to be quite robust and rustless.

I'm also about to start on the regulator and super heater arrangement whilst I wait to get quotes for gas to do the boiler.

Thanks,

Dan.

Next update,

I've finished making a few little bits for the engine over the past couple of weeks. I've made and painted the water gauge fittings (the lower blow down fitting has the now required captive valve), a fire hole door has been made, a proper safety valve has been made along with the bush and is waiting to be tested, the bushes for the clack valves have been made and a ready to be silver soldered into the boiler shell.

There are no indications in the build articles or in the drawings as to what the bushes for the clack valves should be, apart from the boss on the clack valve has a 1/4 x 40 thread on it, so for anyone interested, I made my clack valve bushes out of bronze bar 9/16" dia. x 1/4". I turned the boss down to 3/8" x 1/8" and bored straight through 7/32" and tapped 1/4" x 40.

I'm having a problem with trying to get material for the smoke box. Ideally, I would like to get a steel tube because it's cheap and I thought lots of people would supply it. However no one local supplies it new so a trip to the scrap yard is calling. I suppose 3.5" inside diameter tube is a bit of an odd size.

Dan.

Edited By Dan Jones on 29/07/2014 10:45:42

Hi Jeanie,

Before you decide on anything, try and find as many different options as possible. Pick out the options you like and ask for a price list of castings and drawings for each option. This will give you a rough idea of the amount of money you will need to put into your budget. Before I consider buying anything, I find the price list of castings and drawings, put each individual casting and its connecting price in an excel spread sheet and total up the cost of everything I need. this lets me know if I have enough money to build the engine.

I made a spread sheet for MJ Engineering's 3" Fowler A7 as I was offered a part built rolling chassis of one. It's a very very nice engine but it consists of some complicated machining for a beginner to deal with. Also, I find that parts and castings from MJ Engineering are quite expensive, so try and get what you can second hand (a part built project or second hand castings). I you would like a copy of the spreadsheet I can PM it to you if you want.

Thanks,

Dan.

Hi Brian,

Check out the Steam Traction World website. They do all manner of road steam engines in a load of different sizes. They send their kits via post as parcels so will be fine I should think for over seas.

Dan.

Im in Chippenham, so North Wiltshire. Quite a distance from Newton Abbot.

If you have a lathe then I say get out and use it. I would recommend you try and make a small stationary steam engine, start super simple. It's so uncommon now to see young people such as myself with the skills to be able to go out and independently use lathes, milling machines and hand tools, so the more you can learn, the better.

If you want to have a go at simple steam engine, I designed a small oscillating engine that can be made by people who only have a lathe and a hand drill.

My grandfather and I bought an engine from Berrybrook back in 2011. I must say, I find their prices quite expensive, so don't base your perception of engine costs on their prices.

Dan.

Hi Henry,

I was 12/13 when I decided that I wanted to advance from a mamod into the rally sizes. I did a lot of research which eventually came up trumps.

I would fully advise that you go part built if you have access to workshops and are willing to learn a fresh set of skills. If you go part built or do a restoration, you're indefinitely going to lean about the principles of steam engines and you'll learn how a traction engine works as well as learn new engineering skills such as metal working, measuring, machining, fabrication, interpreting drawings and fitting etc. All very adaptable skills that you can take into the workplace if you are interested in entering engineering as an eventual employment option. Also, if you go part built or do a restoration, the things you learn during the project will help with the maintenance and upkeep of the engine when it's finished.

I was 13 when I got my first engine. It was a part built 3" Burrell traction engine bought from Station Road Steam. My grandfather bought it initially as the chances of a 13 year old having enough cash to buy a 3" engine are highly unlikely. So I was doing what I could as often as I could to get the engine finished. I was shown how to competently use lathes, milling machines and various hand tools to produce a quality finish.

It took me around a year and a half to get enough money to buy out a 1/4 share in the engine. A sum of £1200.

So before you do anything, you need to find a suitable engine make and scale. As a mere beginner, I suggest you go simple like I did. So you will be looking at a single cylinder agricultural/general purpose engine in a size that is rally worthy but small enough to be easily transported, used by a beginner and cheap enough for a teenager. A 3" scale single cylinder agricultural/general purpose engine is what you want as a basis.

A few engines fitting this description are:

3" Burrell Agricultural traction engine to Plastow's design- Very popular for beginners of all ages and aspects, castings and drawings supplied by bridport foundry (the engine I started off with)

3" Fowler A7 General Purpose traction engine- A little larger than the Plastow Burrell and more powerful. A bit more powerful and a bit more expensive. Generally a highly rated engine however. Road and rally worthy.

3" Marshall agricultural traction engine- A less common engine but a well designed model and aesthetically pleasing engine.

3" Allchin agricultural traction engine- Becoming more common in this scale although most are built to W J Hughes design in 1 1/2" scale. A very nice engine all round in terms of power and looks. Quite a large engine for the scale

3" "Little Sampson" tractor- A very small engine for the scale but still rally worthy. Bit odd with looks in my opinion. A cost effective solution.

3" Aveling and Porter road tractor- Simple and compact in design. A kit engine from Maxitrak. I've heard a lot of different points of view from this type of engine.

In terms of cost, for a relatively new engine, you're looking at £7,000 to £10,000 depending on what you get and the quality of the build and finish.

For a part built engine, you can't price them unless you know what you get and what needs to be done. As is often the case with part built engines for sale, the boiler isn't there, which is the bulk of the cost in an engine. You need to expect that the chances of a part built engine coming up for sale without needing any machining having to be completed is going to be quite unlikely unless it's a kit engine. With this option though, you are much more likely to get better value for money.

Keep an eye on the Station Road Steam website and Steam Engines for Sale.

I hope some of this helps. I'm also in the South West and am only 16 so if you have any questions just ask.

Thanks,

Dan.