Member postings for Carl Wilson 4

Hello Dave,

Thanks for that, I had suspected something of the kind. There will be a fair bit of work to do before I get to "oil the sleeve"! Great resource this site.

Going to start stripping the lathe tomorrow so I will report back as I have more to share.

Carl.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 30/01/2014 20:40:54

Hello John,

Yes it is a definite No from me. As a Briton I do not intend to commit treason any time soon.

The motor is 1.1kW 4 pole 3ph. It was (is) £110.

Carl.

Hello Keith,

Many thanks for your post and the information therein. The arrangement you give in 1) makes more sense. The large gear or bull wheel on the spindle has a nut on the forward face of it. I know that this secures a locking block that keys together the spindle cone pulley and the bull wheel. As an aside there is a lot of backlash/play between the cone pulley and the bull wheel so I suspect either the locking block or the locating tenon in the pulley (or both) are worn. I may need to make a new block.

I can't really understand what is going on with the back gear because in one position the whole of the headstock rotating assembly is locked solid by the fact that in that position the spindle bull wheel and pinion are locked together by the gear and pinion on the back gear shaft.

I am going to start stripping the lathe down in the next few days. I will hopefully get a better idea of the scheme of things and some more information during that time. I will update here with regard to my efforts.

Carl.

Hi Steve,

I can heartily recommend Harold Hall's book "Milling, A Complete Course". It gives very good advice regarding small mills and the machining projects include clamps, parallels and other accessories that are handy to have with a mill.

Carl.

As it is not going to happen it won't be a problem. Your comment is simply another of the countless examples of why it is a completely preposterous proposition that does not stand up to even the most basic scrutiny.

Carl.

Ladies and Gents,

I spent the weekend collecting and transporting a Drummond Bros. B type lathe from my Uncle's place in Yorkshire to my home in the Highlands.

My intention is to restore this bonny little lathe to it's former glory. I have to say though that it has been some considerable time since it saw any sort of glory at all.

I have done a lot of reading courtesy of Tony's excellent site, lathes.co.uk. I remember when my Uncle bought the machine from a friend in about 1987, and we always wondered about it. Looking at Tony's site it was obviously a B type, sporting the stiffening loop at the top of the headstock casting, designed to prevent chatter.

The history of the lathe since it has been in my family is as follows. My Uncle is a model railway enthusiast (but that doesn't make him a bad person) and he bought the machine from a friend in his local MR club. The friend had rescued the machine from a landfill site! The lathe was mounted on it's original stand but lacked any of the treadle gear. It did have a large single phase motor attached by way of an extremely beefy bracket that looks original.

My Uncle never used the machine and it has languished in the back of his workshop for nearly 30 years. I've got to say that those 30 years were likely kinder than the previous 70, since all the dirt on the machine would have come from then. This got me thinking about the passage of time and the journeys that artefacts make. My Uncle's intention had been to weigh the machine in for scrap. For my own part I could not in all conscience allow a 100 year old piece of British manufacturing heritage to go in the crusher.

I include some photographs of the machine in my workshop, straight out the back of the van.

The first shows an overview of the machine, parts of the stand can be seen. The large BSF/Whit spanners you can see belonged to my Grandfather. I picked them up at the same time as the lathe. As can be seen, there is no cross slide. Were these machines supplied without them? The toolpost looks original, being similar to those I've seen online. Apparently the serial number should be stamped on one of the bed shears at the rear of the tailstock. I haven't found it yet, so I can't date the machine beyond the period of 1912 - 1921 when the type was in production.

Second and third photographs show the headstock. I can't get my head around the unusual back gear arrangement. With the shaft locked in what might be described as the rear position, both sets of gears are locked up so the spindle can't rotate...I suspect incorrect assembly by a previous owner. The leadscrew is free and rotates in it's bearings, and the clutch actuating bar is also free. The male portion of the clutch and all of the changewheels are missing so I'll have to make these, as well as fabricating a bracket for them. More info from Tony's site required!

Fourth photo shows the tailstock. Currently stuck fast on the bed, but I haven't really made any attempt to shift it as yet.

My eventual aim is to get the machine back into good order and to fit a 1HP 3ph motor with a VFD.

I have joined the Drummond group on Yahoo, so I'll be posting there too. I'm sure I'll get a lot of useful information from them as well as all the other sources. That said, I'll reiterate the questions I've got so far as I'm sure someone here will have an answer.

1) Where is the serial number likely to be?

2) Whats going on with the odd back gear arrangement?

3) Is the cross slide missing or were some machines supplied without?

Here are the pictures:-

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 30/01/2014 17:31:36

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 30/01/2014 17:38:10

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 30/01/2014 17:41:23

Hello all,

Quick update...the conversion has stalled a little as the motor I ordered arrived damaged! I have written about this elsewhere on this site.

Carl.

Hello Mike,

I know only too well. I am "up here" in the far north of Scotland. It really infuriates me when the postage is inflated when I'm clearly still mainland UK. I don't buy or do any business with any company that charges extra postage.

It was AJG parcels that delivered the motor. I'm sure you know them. They are currently being looked at by scouts from Manchester United.

Regardless of the courier's attitude, the motor should still have been packed adequately.

Carl.

Hello All,

Thank you for your comments. Lambton, I think you should be working for RJW Engineering in their despatch department.

Not shown well in my photographs was the damage to the fan cowl as well as the foot. I can well understand that things get knocked about in transit, but had the motor been adequately packed the damage would not have occurred.

I have just got off the telephone with Mike Thompson, RJW Engineering Sales Engineer. He is looking into what happened at their end, but the long and the short of it is I will be getting a new motor.

I should get a call from him this afternoon, so I will keep you posted.

Carl.

Greetings All,

I arrived home today to find a parcel waiting for me. The condition of the box immediately gave rise to concerns.

As I suspected the parcel was the motor and inverter I had been waiting for from RJW Engineering.

The inverter was boxed up separately inside and turned out to be fine. The same could not be said for the motor. It seemed to have just been thrown into the box.

The photos above tell the sorry story. One of the motor's mounting feet has broken off, presumably down to the motor bouncing around in the box. I found the broken portion of the foot in the bottom of the box.

I'll be contacting RJW in the morning. I'll let you know how I get on.

RJW Engineering in Manchester. They trade as motorsandinverters.co.uk...

Had ordered an inverter from them and the supplier in the Netherlands neglected to inform them that the model I had ordered was out of stock. Not only that but it was being phased out. They procured the replacement model (which was priced slightly higher due to increased functionality) for the same price I'd already paid. Extremely courteous on the phone too as I talked through the spec of the replacement unit.

Greetings all,

I haven't written much on my Mill/Drill 3 phase conversion recently. This is because I was using the unit to complete a task. I have now made a start and I include some photographs below.

The first task was to remove the existing single phase motor. After electrically disconnecting the motor at the junction box on the left hand side of the mill/drill head, I found it convenient to remove the motor complete with it's mounting plate. This entailed the removal of the mounting plate upper and lower pivot screws. This method of mounting allows for tensioning of the drive belt.

Here is the motor and mounting plate as removed:-

The next job was to remove the pulley. The two retaining M6 grub screws were removed first. The pulley was a good fit on the shaft as would be expected. There is an 8mm bore in the end of the pulley; I opened this out to 8.5mm and tapped to M10. I was then able to use a long M10 bolt to jack the pulley off the shaft. The application of heat from a hot air gun assisted with this operation:-

Here is the pulley and key as removed:-

Other tasks have to take precedence now but I will add more to this thread as I progress the conversion.

Carl.

What you assert is fairly common knowledge in the engineering world. A certain type of individual who is akin to a lighthouse in a desert.

Extremely bright, but f*** all use to anyone.

Exactly the sort of thing I have been talking about.

A lot of interesting replies and some great food for thought. I too had a Tandy TRS80 and one of the first things I did with it was turn a motor on and off...my parents were mortified, having spent a fortune on this curious beast that their son was then sticking old bits of wire into the back of...

The definition of a tool as something that does you harm if you misuse it is a good one! I think that most of the errors made in engineering or indeed other fields can be attributed to using the wrong tool or using the tool wrong. Time for my own bit of preamble.

Computers and software considered in isolation are tools I think. That said, they are much like a lathe chuck sitting on the bench, which does not truly come into its own until fixed to the lathe spindle. Once the computer has software running on it it becomes the most formidable tool of all. Dr. Alan Turing, widely regarded as the father of digital computing and the software approach, wrote these words in 1948:-

"We do not need to have an infinity of different machines doing different jobs. A single one will suffice. The engineering problem of producing various machines for various jobs is replaced by the office work of 'programming' the universal machine to do these jobs."

Turing's term for computer at this time was "universal machine". During this period a computer was more commonly known as a mathematician, often a girl, employed to carry out long and tedious calculations.

The computer as we know it has gone on to become the universal machine of Turing's dream. This universal machine can be loaded with all sorts of software to do all manner of jobs. And many of them are of interest to us as engineers.

Back in the real world again, I would agree that big expensive CAD packages like Autocad or Solid Works aren't really fertile grounds for magazine articles. The same goes for CNC conversions, up to a point. If someone is building a system that uses, say, a PIC microcontroller as the brains, then the hex code for this could be downloaded fairly easily from this site. There is no need for long lists of code. Many of the electronics magazines feature PICs and downloadable code is the norm. And yes, assembler is still used for these devices, in some cases.

As I mentioned earlier there is a lot of useful engineering software out there for free download. The vast majority of it comes from reputable sites and sources, often equipment manufacturers. The core mathematical principle used in the algorithm is usually given, so you can see how it "does what it does".

I have already given the example of a little executable I use that gives nominal bore pipe data. I am interested in building liquid fuelled rocket engines (I take the ME because I have a fiendish plot to put a traction engine into low earth orbit) and I have an excellent programme called Rocket Propulsion Analysis (RPA). This enables me to input a fuel and oxidiser combination and nozzle parameters to get ideal and estimated specific impulse, mixture ratio, estimated efficiency and even the hot gas constituent species. All stuff that I can calculate but which takes time.

I appreciate the examples I've given are a bit specialist but there are many others out there that are far more generic. It would be nice to hear about them in the mag and maybe have a small review, even half a page. Of course there is likely to be software developed by individual subscribers that might be of use to others and this too could be shared.

As an aside, I have a Drummond treadle lathe coming my way in a few weeks time that needs some TLC. Now if I can just strap it across the front of an armchair....

Yes, I'd agree that the name of the app or program that achieves the nifty little trick and where it can be found is more important than how it does it in most cases. I'd venture to suggest that all who post here know how to work out trig functions etc. We just want to do it quickly and conveniently.

Yes I'd broadly agree with what you say. As well as covering software packages that have helped overcome a specific problem, there are also lots of useful little calculators out there. I have one that gives various bits of design relevant information relating to nominal bore pipe, for example. It would be a good idea to publicise this type of thing, that is to say small executables that are useful in the workshop.

I think that the world of model engineering is on the verge of the revolution that has occurred in full size practice. I'm talking about the emergence of what may be termed "Mechatronics". The enhancement of mechanical systems by electronics and software. There is very little of the old specialisation anymore and most engineering proffessionals find themselves working across disciplines.

I may need to start taking an electronics related publication again alongside ME and EiM; it will be interesting to see if overlap starts to develop in the future and to what extent.

Yes I'd agree. I can understand though that it is difficult to be inclusive in a monthly or bi monthly publication that has to try to cover such a wide array of topics in a subject area. Especially when software related topics can sometimes not be the most interesting in terms of general reading.

I have an interest in electronics and microcontrollers as well as my workshop, but CNC doesn't really appeal to me - at the moment. I derive more pleasure (and it has to be admitted, sometimes frustration!) from using my manual machines and exercising what little skill I have.

When it comes to software and CNC topics, there is a wealth of information on the net. So much so that it is difficult to know where to begin. What magazines are very good at, in my opinion, is offering that "gap in the hedge" into a new world of what may be slightly bewildering ideas. After such an introduction one can then use provided references to study further via the net.

Someone else here has already said that some of the more in depth topics such as CNC, software, 3D modelling/printing etc could be dealt with in a "Special". I think that is a good idea, especially if the articles contain references to more in depth information on the net.

It is like asking if mathematics is a tool. Yes it is. They both are. I think there is more than a passing place for software here and in the magazines.

Hello Terry,

You must be in Cornwall then. I am up in the Highlands but on the east coast, where it is much dryer. Anyway it seems I am unable to string a simple sentence together; the product I have taken to using is called GT 85. It is in fact PTFE based not silicon. Also it is a British product. Have a look here:- **LINK**

Best Wishes,

Carl.